Care Standards Bill [Lords] — Statement of national minimum standards — 12 Jul 2000

As amended in the Standing Committee, considered.

(a) any changes which the Commission thinks should be made, for the purpose of securing improvement in the quality of services provided by local authorities in England in the exercise of relevant functions, in the standards set out in statements under section 48; and

(b) any other matter connected with the exercise by local authorities in England of relevant functions.'-- [Mr. Hutton.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Michael Lord):

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government amendment No. 53.

6A. The Commission shall establish a Healthcare Committee chaired by a Commissioner who shall have specific responsibility for the Commission's functions in respect of independent hospitals.

6B. The Secretary of state shall appoint a Deputy Chairman of the Healthcare Committee from the staff of the Commission for Health Improvement ("CHI"), and the Deputy Chairman shall have

for the purposes of its functions.

premises which are used . . . by a local authority in its discharge of relevant functions.

My reading of the Bill was that the reference in subsection (1)(b) to premises used by a local authority in the discharge of its relevant functions would include the private home of a foster carer, where a child is being fostered as part of the discharge of the local authority's functions. Will the Minister say whether that is correct?

Other amendments are coming up that will allow us to discuss that. There will be an opportunity for National Care Standards Commission inspectors to have access to the homes of private foster carers, because that is entirely appropriate.

I then asked the Minister the same question again:

Will the Minister answer my specific question? Does the reference in subsection (1)(b) to premises used by a local authority for the discharge of its relevant functions include a private home in which a child is fostered?

My advice is that it does not include the private homes of foster carers.--[ Official Report, Standing Committee G , 22 June 2000; c. 428-29.]

The appropriate Minister may prepare and publish statements of national minimum standards applicable to establishments or agencies.

The appropriate Minister shall keep the standards set out in the statements under review and may publish amended statements.

the appropriate Minister shall consult any persons he considers appropriate.

shall keep the standards . . . under review

shall consult any persons he considers appropriate--

The Commission may at any time give advice to the Secretary of State on . . . any changes which the Commission thinks should be made.

The Commission may at any time give advice to the Secretary of State on--

(a) any changes which the Commission thinks should be made . . . and

(b) any other matter connected.

The Commission may at any time give advice . . . under section 48.

The report of the person who held the inquiry shall, unless the Minister who caused the inquiry to be held considers that it would be inappropriate to publish it, be published in a manner which that Minister considers appropriate.

considers it necessary or expedient to have for the purposes of its functions under this Part.

The commission shall establish . . . an independent Healthcare Committee . . . a Nursing and Care Homes Committee . . . a Directorate of Independent Health Care . . . a Directorate of Nursing and Care Homes . . . The Secretary of State may by regulations define the respective responsibilities . . .

an Independent Healthcare Committee chaired by a Commissioner who shall have specific responsibility for the Commission's functions in respect of independent hospitals . . .

An authority may make arrangements with persons under which they, or members of their staff, may perform functions of members of the staff and of the authority.

the registration authority may at any time require a local authority to provide it with any information relating to the discharge by the local authority of relevant functions which the registration authority considers it necessary or expedient to have for the purposes of its functions under this Part . . .

a person authorised to do so by the registration authority--

may at any time enter and inspect premises which are used, or which he has reasonable cause to believe to be used, by a local authority in its discharge of relevant functions.

necessary or expedient to have for the purposes of its functions under this Part.

in relation to records which are kept by means of a computer, power to require the records to be produced in a form in which they are legible and can be taken away.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause read a Second time, and added to the Bill.

(2) The Secretary of State may publish different statements under subsection (1) in respect of different descriptions of establishments or agencies.

(3) Before publishing a statement or amendments to a statement, the Secretary of State shall comply with the requirements of subsections (4) and (5) below.

(4) The Secretary of State shall--

(a) consult such persons as he considers appropriate and, in determining who to consult, he shall take advice from the Commission; and

(b) request the Commission to give him advice as to the likely impact of the proposed statement or the proposed amendment on--

(i) the aggregate supply of the service provided by establishments or agencies of the type concerned in England and Wales; and

(ii) the cost of supplying such services in accordance with the statement of minimum standards;

and shall then publish a draft of a statement or of amendments to a statement.

(5) The Secretary of State shall lay before both Houses of Parliament a draft of any proposed statement of national minimum standards or amendments to a statement together with copies of representations received in respect of the consultation under subsection (4)(a) and the advice received from the Commission under subsection (4)(b).

(6) No statement of national minimum standards shall have effect unless a draft of it has been laid before each House of Parliament in accordance with subsection (5) and has been approved by resolution of each House of Parliament.

(7) Where a statement of national minimum standards applies to an establishment or agency, no person may be registered in respect of that establishment or agency unless the applicable national minimum standard is complied with.'.-- [Mr. Hammond.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment No. 38, in clause 22, page 13, leave out lines 14 and 15.

prepare and publish statements of national minimum standards applicable to establishments or agencies

the cost of supplying such services . . . ?

The standards shall be taken into account

in any proceedings for an offence under regulations.

share with the Committee some of the detailed thinking--[ Official Report, Standing Committee G , 6 June 2000; c. 29.]

requirements as to the financial position of an establishment or agency.

make provision in the case of an establishment providing cosmetic surgery

the nature of statements that may be made with regard to the services provided; and . . . the titles that may be used to describe persons carrying on, managing or employed at such an establishment.

consult such persons as he considers appropriate

request the Commission to give him advice as to the likely impact of the proposed statement or the proposed amendment

the cost of supplying such services in accordance with the statement of minimum standards.

Basically, this is another idea developed by those who do not know and never ask.

We are negotiating a loan to improve our facilities and have been experiencing difficulties with lenders directly due to the possible implication of these proposals. We are now having to alter plans and hope this will satisfy lenders. This will increase our loan and without an adequate increase in fees, budgets will be very tight. These are onerous standards, financially wasteful and will threaten small establishments.

The larger homes can easily absorb costs. Is this the future--the large plcs controlling the care sector?

We've just spent a fortune upgrading to existing standards. If new standards are introduced, we would have to close. Residents would lose their homes, staff would lose their jobs and we would be devastated.

Standards must be meaningful, and concentrate on quality, not merely on physical standards . . . The RNH is 100 per cent. committed to quality care but have been saying for some time that it is unjustifiable to raise physical standards any further in a climate of decreasing resources.

We comply with all the current regulations. I have difficulty comprehending how an increase in bedroom size can have that great an effect on the care and wellbeing of our residents. The vast majority spend no waking time in them whatsoever. We employ more care staff per week than the basic requirement, our staff are comprehensively trained and care is of the highest standard. These standards would bankrupt us. Eighteen residents would be homeless. Twenty-four staff, many of them breadwinners, would be unemployed.

In our experience, most of our residents have used the bedroom only for sleeping in at night and a few for a nap after lunch.

We are seeing Home closures in Norfolk which result in residents being transferred up to 20 miles away

a problem for relatives and friends for . . . maintaining contact

The Care Standards Bill . . . will introduce the regulation and inspection of all types of home care provision, including that provided in sheltered accommodation.--[ Official Report, Westminster Hall , 14 June 2000; Vol. 351, c. 270WH.]

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time:--

The House divided: Ayes 159, Noes 299.

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Mr Roger CasaleWimbledonLabno
Martin CatonGowerLab (minister)no
Ian CawseyBrigg and GooleLabno
Ben ChapmanWirral SouthLabno
Malcolm ChisholmEdinburgh North and LeithLabno
Michael ClaphamBarnsley West and PenistoneLabno
Dr David ClarkSouth ShieldsLabno
Ms Helen ClarkPeterboroughLabno
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Paul ClarkGillinghamLabno
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Mr Eric ClarkeMidlothianLabno
Tom ClarkeCoatbridge and ChrystonLabno
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Vernon CoakerGedlingLabno
Ann CoffeyStockportLabno
Mr Iain ColemanHammersmith and FulhamLabno
Mr Tony ColmanPutneyLabno
Michael ConnartyFalkirk EastLab (minister)no
Frank CookStockton NorthLabno
Yvette CooperPontefract and CastlefordLab (minister)no
Mr Robin CorbettBirmingham, ErdingtonLab (minister)no
Ms Jean CorstonBristol EastLabno
Jim CousinsNewcastle upon Tyne CentralLabno
Mr Tom CoxTootingLabno
Professor Ross CranstonDudley NorthLab (minister)no
David CrausbyBolton North EastLab (minister)no
Ann CryerKeighleyLabno
John CryerHornchurchLabno
Dr Jack CunninghamCopelandLabno
Jim CunninghamCoventry SouthLab (minister)no
Claire Curtis-ThomasCrosbyLabno
Mr Tam DalyellLinlithgowLabno
Mr Keith DarvillUpminsterLabno
Mrs Valerie DaveyBristol WestLabno
Ian DavidsonGlasgow PollokLab (minister)no
Mr Denzil DaviesLlanelliLabno
Mr Terry DavisBirmingham, Hodge HillLabno
Mr Hilton DawsonLancaster and WyreLabno
Janet DeanBurtonLabno
John DenhamSouthampton, ItchenLab (minister)no
Jim DobbinHeywood and MiddletonLabno
Frank DobsonHolborn and St PancrasLabno
Brian H DonohoeCunninghame SouthLab (minister)no
Frank DoranAberdeen CentralLabno
Jim DowdLewisham WestLab (minister)no
David DrewStroudLab (minister)no
Angela EagleWallaseyLab (minister)no
Maria EagleLiverpool, GarstonLabno
Mr Huw EdwardsMonmouthLabno
Clive EffordElthamLab (minister)no
Jeff EnnisBarnsley East and MexboroughLabno
Bill EtheringtonSunderland NorthLabno
Frank FieldBirkenheadLabno
Paul FlynnNewport WestLabno
Barbara FollettStevenageLabno
Mr Derek FosterBishop AucklandLab (minister)no
Michael FosterWorcesterLabno
Michael Jabez FosterHastings and RyeLabno
Mr George FoulkesCarrick, Cumnock and Doon ValleyLab (minister)no
Bruce GeorgeWalsall SouthLabno
Neil GerrardWalthamstowLabno
Linda GilroyPlymouth, SuttonLabno
Roger GodsiffBirmingham, Sparkbrook and Small HeathLabno
Paul GogginsWythenshawe and Sale EastLabno
Mrs Llin GoldingNewcastle-under-LymeLabno
Mrs Eileen GordonRomfordLabno
Ms Jane GriffithsReading EastLabno
Nigel GriffithsEdinburgh SouthLabno
Mr Win GriffithsBridgendLabno
Mr Bruce GrocottTelfordLabno
Mr John GunnellMorley and RothwellLabno
Mike HallWeaver ValeLab (minister)no
Patrick HallBedfordLabno
Fabian HamiltonLeeds North EastLab (minister)no
David HansonDelynLab (minister)no
Harriet HarmanCamberwell and PeckhamLab (minister)no
Sylvia HealHalesowen and Rowley Regiswhilst Labno
John HealeyWentworthLabno
Stephen HepburnJarrowLab (minister)no
John HeppellNottingham EastLabno
Stephen HesfordWirral WestLabno
Patricia HewittLeicester WestLab (minister)no
Keith HillStreathamLab (minister)no
Margaret HodgeBarkingLab (minister)no
Jimmy HoodClydesdaleLab (minister)no
Geoff HoonAshfieldLab (minister)no
Kelvin HopkinsLuton NorthLabno
Lindsay HoyleChorleyLab (minister)no
Beverley HughesStretford and UrmstonLab (minister)no
Mr Kevin HughesDoncaster NorthLab (minister)no
Mr Alan HurstBraintreeLabno
John HuttonBarrow and FurnessLab (minister)no
Mrs Helen JacksonSheffield, HillsboroughLabno
Mr David JamiesonPlymouth, DevonportLab (minister)no
Brian JenkinsTamworthLabno
Alan JohnsonKingston upon Hull West and HessleLab (minister)no
Miss Melanie JohnsonWelwyn HatfieldLab (minister)no
Mr Barry JonesAlyn and DeesideLabno
Ms Jenny JonesWolverhampton South WestLabno
Mr Jon Owen JonesCardiff CentralLabno
Lynne JonesBirmingham, Selly OakLabno
Sally KeebleNorthampton NorthLabno
Alan KeenFeltham and HestonLabno
Ann KeenBrentford and IsleworthLabno
Fraser KempHoughton and Washington EastLabno
Jane KennedyLiverpool, WavertreeLab (minister)no
Piara S KhabraEaling, SouthallLabno
David KidneyStaffordLabno
Peter KilfoyleLiverpool, WaltonLabno
Mr Andy KingRugby and KenilworthLabno
Ashok KumarMiddlesbrough South and East ClevelandLabno
Stephen LadymanSouth ThanetLabno
David LammyTottenhamLabno
Mrs Jackie LawrencePreseli PembrokeshireLabno
Bob LaxtonDerby NorthLabno
David LepperBrighton, PavilionLabno
Chris LeslieShipleyLabno
Tom LevittHigh PeakLabno
Ivan LewisBury SouthLabno
Mr Terry LewisWorsleyLabno
Mrs Helen LiddellAirdrie and ShottsLab (minister)no
Martin LintonBatterseaLabno
Tony LloydManchester CentralLabno
Mr David LockWyre ForestLab (minister)no
Andrew LoveEdmontonLab (minister)no
Mr Calum MacDonaldNa h-Eileanan an IarLabno
Andrew MacKinlayThurrockLabno
Denis MacShaneRotherhamLabno
Fiona MactaggartSloughLabno
Judy MallaberAmber ValleyLabno
Gordon MarsdenBlackpool SouthLab (minister)no
Mr Paul MarsdenShrewsbury and AtchamLabno
David MarshallGlasgow ShettlestonLabno
Robert Marshall-AndrewsMedwayLabno
Eric MartlewCarlisleLabno
Thomas McAvoyGlasgow RutherglenLab (minister)no
Chris McCaffertyCalder ValleyLabno
John Martin McDonnellHayes and HarlingtonLabno
John McFallDumbartonLab (minister)no
Anne McGuireStirlingLab (minister)no
Shona McIsaacCleethorpesLabno
Rosemary McKennaCumbernauld and KilsythLabno
Mr Kevin McNamaraKingston upon Hull NorthLabno
Tony McNultyHarrow EastLab (minister)tellno
Mr Tony McWalterHemel HempsteadLabno
Michael MeacherOldham West and RoytonLab (minister)no
Alan MealeMansfieldLab (minister)no
Gillian MerronLincolnLabno
Alun MichaelCardiff South and PenarthLabno
Mr Bill MichieSheffield, HeeleyLabno
Alan MilburnDarlingtonLab (minister)no
Andrew MillerEllesmere Port and NestonLabno
Laura MoffattCrawleyLabno
Dr Lewis MoonieKirkcaldyLab (minister)no
Margaret MoranLuton SouthLabno
Julie MorganCardiff NorthLabno
Mr Rhodri MorganCardiff WestLabno
Elliot MorleyScunthorpeLab (minister)no
Ms Estelle MorrisBirmingham, YardleyLab (minister)no
Kali MountfordColne ValleyLabno
Dr Mo MowlamRedcarLab (minister)no
George MudieLeeds EastLabno
Chris MullinSunderland SouthLab (minister)no
Denis MurphyWansbeckLabno
Jim MurphyEast RenfrewshireLab (minister)no
Paul MurphyTorfaenLab (minister)no
Dan NorrisWansdykeLabno
Mr Bill O'BrienNormantonLabno
Edward O'HaraKnowsley SouthLabno
Mr Martin O'NeillOchilLab (minister)no
Bill OlnerNuneatonLabno
Sandra OsborneAyrLabno
Ian PearsonDudley SouthLabno
Mr Tom PendryStalybridge and HydeLabno
Ms Linda PerhamIlford NorthLabno
Mr Colin PickthallWest LancashireLabno
Mr Peter PikeBurnleyLabno
James PlaskittWarwick and LeamingtonLabno
Mr Kerry PollardSt AlbansLabno
Mr Chris PondGraveshamLabno
Greg PopeHyndburnLab (minister)tellno
Mr Raymond PowellOgmoreLabno
Gordon PrenticePendleLabno
John PrescottKingston upon Hull EastLab (minister)no
Gwyn ProsserDoverLabno
Ken PurchaseWolverhampton North EastLabno
Mr Lawrie QuinnScarborough and WhitbyLabno
Mr Syd RapsonPortsmouth NorthLabno
Nick RaynsfordGreenwich and WoolwichLab (minister)no
John ReidHamilton North and BellshillLab (minister)no
Mr Allan RogersRhonddaLabno
Mr Jeff RookerBirmingham, Perry BarrLab (minister)no
Terry RooneyBradford NorthLabno
Mr Ernie RossDundee WestLabno
Mr Ted RowlandsMerthyr Tydfil and RhymneyLab (minister)no
Frank RoyMotherwell and WishawLabno
Chris RuaneVale of ClwydLab (minister)no
Joan RuddockLewisham, DeptfordLabno
Christine RussellCity of ChesterLabno
Martin SalterReading WestLabno
Mohammad SarwarGlasgow GovanLabno
Mr Phil SawfordKetteringLabno
Mr Brian SedgemoreHackney South and ShoreditchLabno
Jonathan R ShawChatham and AylesfordLabno
Barry SheermanHuddersfieldLab (minister)no
Mr Robert SheldonAshton-under-LyneLab (minister)no
Ms Debra ShipleyStourbridgeLabno
Clare ShortBirmingham, LadywoodLab (minister)no
Alan SimpsonNottingham SouthLabno
Dennis SkinnerBolsoverLab (minister)no
Angela SmithBasildonLabno
Geraldine SmithMorecambe and LunesdaleLabno
Jacqui SmithRedditchLab (minister)no
John SmithVale of GlamorganLabno
Mr Llew SmithBlaenau GwentLabno
Mr Clive SoleyEaling, Acton and Shepherd's BushLab (minister)no
Helen SouthworthWarrington SouthLabno
John SpellarWarleyLab (minister)no
Rachel SquireDunfermline WestLabno
Mr Gerry SteinbergCity of DurhamLabno
Ian StewartEcclesLabno
Mr Paul StinchcombeWellingboroughLabno
Howard StoateDartfordLabno
Gisela StuartBirmingham, EdgbastonLab (minister)no
Gerry SutcliffeBradford SouthLab (minister)no
Mrs Ann TaylorDewsburyLab (minister)no
Dari TaylorStockton SouthLabno
David TaylorNorth West LeicestershireLabno
Mr Peter Temple-MorrisLeominsterwhilst Labno
Mr Gareth ThomasClwyd WestLabno
Stephen TimmsEast HamLab (minister)no
Don TouhigIslwynLab (minister)no
Jon TrickettHemsworthLabno
Paul TruswellPudseyLabno
Mr Dennis TurnerWolverhampton South EastLab (minister)no
Desmond TurnerBrighton, KemptownLabno
Dr George TurnerNorth West NorfolkLabno
Neil TurnerWiganLabno
Derek TwiggHaltonLabno
Stephen TwiggEnfield, SouthgateLab (minister)no
Mr Bill TynanHamilton SouthLabno
Rudi VisFinchley and Golders GreenLabno
Claire WardWatfordLabno
Robert WareingLiverpool, West DerbyLabno
Dave WattsSt Helens NorthLab (minister)no
Mr Brian WhiteNorth East Milton KeynesLabno
Malcolm WicksCroydon NorthLab (minister)no
Dr Alan WilliamsCarmarthen East and DinefwrLabno
Alan WilliamsSwansea WestLabno
David WinnickWalsall NorthLab (minister)no
Rosie WintertonDoncaster CentralLabno
Shaun WoodwardWitneywhilst Labno
Phil WoolasOldham East and SaddleworthLabno
Mr Tony WorthingtonClydebank and MilngavieLabno
Mr Jimmy WrayGlasgow BailliestonLabno
Anthony D WrightGreat YarmouthLabno
Tony WrightCannock ChaseLabno
Derek WyattSittingbourne and SheppeyLabno
Mr Richard AllanSheffield, HallamLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Paddy AshdownYeovilLDem (front bench)aye
Norman BakerLewesLDem (front bench)aye
Mrs Jackie BallardTauntonLDemaye
Alan BeithBerwick-upon-TweedLDem (front bench)aye
Tom BrakeCarshalton and WallingtonLDem (front bench)aye
Dr Peter BrandIsle of WightLDemaye
Malcolm BruceGordonLDem (front bench)aye
Mr John BurnettTorridge and West DevonLDemaye
Paul BurstowSutton and CheamLDem (front bench)aye
Menzies CampbellNorth East FifeLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Brian CotterWeston-Super-MareLDem (front bench)aye
Edward DaveyKingston and SurbitonLDem (front bench)aye
Don FosterBathLDem (front bench)aye
Andrew GeorgeSt IvesLDem (front bench)aye
Sandra GidleyRomseyLDemaye
Donald GorrieEdinburgh WestLDemaye
Mike HancockPortsmouth SouthLDem (front bench)aye
David HeathSomerton and FromeLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Richard LivseyBrecon and RadnorshireLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Robert MaclennanCaithness, Sutherland and Easter RossLDemaye
Mrs Ray MichieArgyll and ButeLDemaye
Michael MooreTweeddale, Ettrick and LauderdaleLDem (front bench)aye
Lembit ÖpikMontgomeryshireLDemaye
Mr David RendelNewburyLDemaye
Adrian SandersTorbayLDem (front bench)aye
Robert SmithWest Aberdeenshire and KincardineLDem (front bench)aye
Matthew TaylorTruro and St AustellLDem (front bench)aye
Steve WebbNorthavonLDem (front bench)aye
Phil WillisHarrogate and KnaresboroughLDem (front bench)aye
Elfyn LlwydMeirionnydd Nant ConwyPC (front bench)aye
Mr Simon ThomasCeredigionPCaye
Mr Roy BeggsEast AntrimUUPaye

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