Immigration and Asylum Bill — Repeal of section 8 of the Asylum and Immigration Act 1996 — 16 Jun 1999

Clause read a Second time, and added to the Bill.

Brought up, and read the First time.

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

With this, it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 150, in clause 15, page 11, line 7, leave out Clause 15.

9.30 pm

At the time when the 1996 Act was passed, the Government estimated that the increased costs to employers would total £13.5 million initially and £11.5 million in recurring costs. I should be interested to hear whether the Minister believes that those estimates have been borne out. The Government's proposals, which would impose a code of practice that is designed somehow to ameliorate the effects of section 8, might increase the costs to business. In any case, why should we believe that the new code of practice will be more effective in reducing discrimination than previous guidance issued by the Home Office?

I got the impression from the Minister that the new procedure would work as follows: in order to avoid direct discrimination, if any applicant for a job might conceivably have an immigration status that needs to be checked, the duty will be on the employer to check the immigration status of all applicants for the job. My constituency contains a university, and I know how common it is for foreign nationals to work in universities and apply for jobs in them. However, it would appear that for university employers--this point applies to many multinational and international companies as well--the way forward now is to check the eligibility for work under immigration rules of every applicant to each job. That is a huge burden, which is not outweighed by any potential benefits.

In respect of the benefits that could be attached to section 8, the Government's clear intention has been to send the message to employers that they should not illegally employ those who are not eligible to work. However, since section 8 came into force, there has been only one prosecution under its provisions. The Government have said that there are to be more, but it is clear that section 8 has not been used effectively.

The people we want to catch are the traffickers in human misery--the racketeers and gang masters who bring in people to work in the agricultural sector and other sectors. A more appropriate way in which to deal with them is under section 25 of the Immigration Act 1971 and, at the start of Report stage, we talked about strengthening the provisions of that Act to deal with such racketeers. I believe that we can take measures to deal with employers that do not involve burdening them with strict liability when they are found guilty of employing people illegally, given that that has been clearly shown to put employers off employing anyone other than obviously British white citizens, whose employment poses no risk to the employer under section 8 of the 1996 Act.

The CRE's verdict on section 8 is absolutely explicit:

"There is no evidence that section 8 has proved to be an effective deterrent to illegal working or racketeering. It is likely to have increased the employment costs of good employers, and it has encouraged the unscrupulous to discriminate. For ethnic minority job-seekers it has added to the barriers which they face."

That is a clear indictment from an expert front-line organisation which is responsible for dealing with such matters. I understand that my hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable) will refer to evidence from the CBI and the TUC, which both regularly deal with employment issues on the front line.

The case is clear. Some of the Labour Members present tonight were involved in the debates on the 1996 Act and they will remember the case that was made at that time. It has been proved that section 8 has had a discriminatory effect and there is nothing in the Bill to suggest that we can look forward to a period in which it will not continue to have serious negative effects. The Government should respond positively to the report of the better regulation task force, accept the amendment and repeal section 8. They should concentrate on hitting human traffickers with more appropriate measures, which now carry penalties of up to 10 years' imprisonment, rather than imposing a strict liability on all employers. That only leads employers to discriminate against people, many of whom have been British citizens for years or have a perfect right to work in British companies.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time:--

The House divided: Ayes 39, Noes 334.

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Peter BottomleyWorthing WestCon (front bench)aye
Sir Peter LloydFarehamConaye
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Diane AbbottHackney North and Stoke NewingtonLab (minister)no
Mrs Irene AdamsPaisley NorthLab (minister)no
Nick AingerCarmarthen West and South PembrokeshireLabno
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Mr Donald AndersonSwansea EastLab (minister)no
Janet AndersonRossendale and DarwenLab (minister)no
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Charlotte AtkinsStaffordshire MoorlandsLabno
Mr Harry BarnesNorth East DerbyshireLabno
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John BattleLeeds WestLab (minister)no
Hugh BayleyCity of YorkLab (minister)no
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Stuart BellMiddlesbroughLab (minister)no
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Liz BlackmanErewashLabno
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Mr Paul BoatengBrent SouthLab (minister)no
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Mr Keith BradleyManchester, WithingtonLab (minister)no
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Nick BrownNewcastle upon Tyne East and WallsendLab (minister)no
Russell BrownDumfriesLabno
Des BrowneKilmarnock and LoudounLab (minister)no
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Martin CatonGowerLab (minister)no
Ian CawseyBrigg and GooleLabno
Ben ChapmanWirral SouthLabno
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Ms Judith ChurchDagenhamLabno
Michael ClaphamBarnsley West and PenistoneLabno
Dr David ClarkSouth ShieldsLabno
Ms Helen ClarkPeterboroughLabno
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Paul ClarkGillinghamLabno
Charles ClarkeNorwich SouthLab (minister)no
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Mr Tony ColmanPutneyLabno
Michael ConnartyFalkirk EastLab (minister)no
Robin CookLivingstonLab (minister)no
Mr Robin CorbettBirmingham, ErdingtonLab (minister)no
Jeremy CorbynIslington NorthLabno
Ms Jean CorstonBristol EastLabno
Jim CousinsNewcastle upon Tyne CentralLabno
Professor Ross CranstonDudley NorthLab (minister)no
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Ann CryerKeighleyLabno
John CryerHornchurchLabno
John CummingsEasingtonLabno
Claire Curtis-ThomasCrosbyLabno
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Alistair DarlingEdinburgh CentralLab (minister)no
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Mrs Valerie DaveyBristol WestLabno
Ian DavidsonGlasgow PollokLab (minister)no
Mr Denzil DaviesLlanelliLabno
Geraint DaviesCroydon CentralLab (minister)no
Mr Hilton DawsonLancaster and WyreLabno
Janet DeanBurtonLabno
John DenhamSouthampton, ItchenLab (minister)no
Andrew DismoreHendonLabno
Jim DobbinHeywood and MiddletonLabno
Frank DobsonHolborn and St PancrasLab (minister)no
Brian H DonohoeCunninghame SouthLab (minister)no
Frank DoranAberdeen CentralLabno
Jim DowdLewisham WestLab (minister)no
David DrewStroudLab (minister)no
Angela EagleWallaseyLab (minister)no
Maria EagleLiverpool, GarstonLab (minister)no
Mr Huw EdwardsMonmouthLabno
Clive EffordElthamLab (minister)no
Louise EllmanLiverpool, RiversideLabno
Jeff EnnisBarnsley East and MexboroughLabno
Mark FisherStoke-on-Trent CentralLabno
Jim FitzpatrickPoplar and Canning TownLabno
Ms Lorna FitzsimonsRochdaleLabno
Caroline FlintDon ValleyLab (minister)no
Barbara FollettStevenageLabno
Michael FosterWorcesterLabno
Michael Jabez FosterHastings and RyeLabno
Mr George FoulkesCarrick, Cumnock and Doon ValleyLab (minister)no
Mrs Maria FyfeGlasgow MaryhillLabno
George GallowayGlasgow KelvinLabno
Mike GapesIlford SouthLabno
Barry GardinerBrent NorthLab (minister)no
Neil GerrardWalthamstowLabno
Ian GibsonNorwich NorthLabno
Linda GilroyPlymouth, SuttonLabno
Dr Norman GodmanGreenock and InverclydeLabno
Roger GodsiffBirmingham, Sparkbrook and Small HeathLabno
Paul GogginsWythenshawe and Sale EastLabno
Mrs Llin GoldingNewcastle-under-LymeLabno
Mrs Eileen GordonRomfordLabno
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Mr Win GriffithsBridgendLabno
Mr Bruce GrocottTelfordLabno
John GroganSelbyLab (minister)no
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Mike HallWeaver ValeLab (minister)no
Patrick HallBedfordLabno
Fabian HamiltonLeeds North EastLab (minister)no
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Harriet HarmanCamberwell and PeckhamLab (minister)no
Sylvia HealHalesowen and Rowley Regiswhilst Labno
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Mr Ivan HendersonHarwichLabno
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John HeppellNottingham EastLabno
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Patricia HewittLeicester WestLab (minister)no
Keith HillStreathamLab (minister)no
Mr David HinchliffeWakefieldLabno
Margaret HodgeBarkingLab (minister)no
Kate HoeyVauxhallLab (minister)no
Jimmy HoodClydesdaleLab (minister)no
Geoff HoonAshfieldLab (minister)no
Phil HopeCorbyLabno
Kelvin HopkinsLuton NorthLabno
Mr Alan HowarthNewport EastLab (minister)no
George HowarthKnowsley North and Sefton EastLab (minister)no
Kim HowellsPontypriddLab (minister)no
Lindsay HoyleChorleyLab (minister)no
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Joan HumbleBlackpool North and FleetwoodLabno
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Mrs Helen JacksonSheffield, HillsboroughLabno
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Alan JohnsonKingston upon Hull West and HessleLabno
Miss Melanie JohnsonWelwyn HatfieldLabno
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Fiona JonesNewarkLabno
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Mr Jon Owen JonesCardiff CentralLab (minister)no
Lynne JonesBirmingham, Selly OakLabno
Martyn JonesClwyd SouthLabno
Tessa JowellDulwich and West NorwoodLab (minister)no
Gerald KaufmanManchester, GortonLab (minister)no
Sally KeebleNorthampton NorthLabno
Alan KeenFeltham and HestonLabno
Jane KennedyLiverpool, WavertreeLab (minister)no
Piara S KhabraEaling, SouthallLabno
David KidneyStaffordLabno
Peter KilfoyleLiverpool, WaltonLab (minister)no
Mr Andy KingRugby and KenilworthLabno
Ashok KumarMiddlesbrough South and East ClevelandLabno
Stephen LadymanSouth ThanetLabno
Mrs Jackie LawrencePreseli PembrokeshireLabno
Bob LaxtonDerby NorthLabno
David LepperBrighton, PavilionLabno
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Tom LevittHigh PeakLabno
Ivan LewisBury SouthLab (minister)no
Martin LintonBatterseaLabno
Ken LivingstoneBrent Eastwhilst Labno
Tony LloydManchester CentralLab (minister)no
Mr David LockWyre ForestLabno
Mr Calum MacDonaldNa h-Eileanan an IarLab (minister)no
Andrew MacKinlayThurrockLabno
Denis MacShaneRotherhamLabno
Fiona MactaggartSloughLabno
Judy MallaberAmber ValleyLabno
Mr Peter MandelsonHartlepoolLabno
Mr Paul MarsdenShrewsbury and AtchamLabno
David MarshallGlasgow ShettlestonLabno
Robert Marshall-AndrewsMedwayLabno
Eric MartlewCarlisleLabno
Thomas McAvoyGlasgow RutherglenLab (minister)no
Steve McCabeBirmingham, Hall GreenLab (minister)no
Ian McCartneyMakerfieldLab (minister)no
Siobhain McDonaghMitcham and MordenLabno
John Martin McDonnellHayes and HarlingtonLabno
John McFallDumbartonLab (minister)no
Anne McGuireStirlingLab (minister)no
Shona McIsaacCleethorpesLabno
Tony McNultyHarrow EastLabno
Mr Tony McWalterHemel HempsteadLabno
Mr John McWilliamBlaydonLabno
Michael MeacherOldham West and RoytonLab (minister)no
Alan MealeMansfieldLab (minister)no
Gillian MerronLincolnLabno
Alun MichaelCardiff South and PenarthLab (minister)no
Mr Bill MichieSheffield, HeeleyLabno
Alan MilburnDarlingtonLab (minister)no
Andrew MillerEllesmere Port and NestonLabno
Laura MoffattCrawleyLabno
Dr Lewis MoonieKirkcaldyLab (minister)no
Margaret MoranLuton SouthLabno
Julie MorganCardiff NorthLabno
Elliot MorleyScunthorpeLab (minister)no
Ms Estelle MorrisBirmingham, YardleyLab (minister)no
Sir John MorrisAberavonLab (minister)no
Kali MountfordColne ValleyLabno
Dr Mo MowlamRedcarLab (minister)no
George MudieLeeds EastLab (minister)no
Chris MullinSunderland SouthLabno
Denis MurphyWansbeckLabno
Jim MurphyEast RenfrewshireLabno
Paul MurphyTorfaenLab (minister)no
Doug NaysmithBristol North WestLabno
Dan NorrisWansdykeLabno
Mr Bill O'BrienNormantonLabno
Mike O'BrienNorth WarwickshireLab (minister)no
Mr Martin O'NeillOchilLab (minister)no
Bill OlnerNuneatonLabno
Sandra OsborneAyrLab (minister)no
Nick PalmerBroxtoweLabno
Ian PearsonDudley SouthLabno
Mr Tom PendryStalybridge and HydeLabno
Mr Colin PickthallWest LancashireLabno
Mr Peter PikeBurnleyLabno
James PlaskittWarwick and LeamingtonLabno
Mr Chris PondGraveshamLabno
Greg PopeHyndburnLab (minister)no
Mr Raymond PowellOgmoreLabno
Bridget PrenticeLewisham EastLabno
Gordon PrenticePendleLabno
Dawn PrimaroloBristol SouthLab (minister)no
Gwyn ProsserDoverLabno
Ken PurchaseWolverhampton North EastLabno
Ms Joyce QuinGateshead East and Washington WestLab (minister)no
Mr Lawrie QuinnScarborough and WhitbyLabno
Mr Giles RadiceNorth DurhamLab (minister)no
Bill RammellHarlowLabno
Andy ReedLoughboroughLabno
John ReidHamilton North and BellshillLab (minister)no
Geoffrey RobinsonCoventry North WestLabno
Mrs Barbara RocheHornsey and Wood GreenLab (minister)no
Mr Jeff RookerBirmingham, Perry BarrLab (minister)no
Terry RooneyBradford NorthLabno
Mr Ernie RossDundee WestLabno
Mr Ted RowlandsMerthyr Tydfil and RhymneyLab (minister)no
Frank RoyMotherwell and WishawLabno
Chris RuaneVale of ClwydLab (minister)no
Joan RuddockLewisham, DeptfordLabno
Christine RussellCity of ChesterLabno
Joan RyanEnfield NorthLabno
Mohammad SarwarGlasgow GovanLabno
Mr Malcolm SavidgeAberdeen NorthLabno
Mr Phil SawfordKetteringLabno
Mr Brian SedgemoreHackney South and ShoreditchLabno
Jonathan R ShawChatham and AylesfordLabno
Barry SheermanHuddersfieldLabno
Mr Robert SheldonAshton-under-LyneLab (minister)no
Clare ShortBirmingham, LadywoodLab (minister)no
Alan SimpsonNottingham SouthLabno
Dennis SkinnerBolsoverLabno
Andrew SmithOxford EastLab (minister)no
Angela SmithBasildonLabno
Mr Chris SmithIslington South and FinsburyLab (minister)no
Jacqui SmithRedditchLabno
John SmithVale of GlamorganLabno
Mr Llew SmithBlaenau GwentLabno
Mr Peter SnapeWest Bromwich EastLabno
Mr Clive SoleyEaling, Acton and Shepherd's BushLab (minister)no
Helen SouthworthWarrington SouthLabno
John SpellarWarleyLab (minister)no
Rachel SquireDunfermline WestLabno
Mr Gerry SteinbergCity of DurhamLabno
Mr David StewartInverness East, Nairn and LochaberLabno
Ian StewartEcclesLabno
Mr Paul StinchcombeWellingboroughLabno
Howard StoateDartfordLabno
Mr Roger StottWiganLabno
Gavin StrangEdinburgh East and MusselburghLabno
Jack StrawBlackburnLab (minister)no
Graham StringerManchester, BlackleyLab (minister)no
Gisela StuartBirmingham, EdgbastonLabno
Gerry SutcliffeBradford SouthLabno
Mrs Ann TaylorDewsburyLab (minister)no
Dari TaylorStockton SouthLabno
Mr Peter Temple-MorrisLeominsterwhilst Labno
Mr Gareth ThomasClwyd WestLabno
Gareth ThomasHarrow WestLab (minister)no
Stephen TimmsEast HamLab (minister)no
Paddy TippingSherwoodLab (minister)no
Don TouhigIslwynLabno
Mr Dennis TurnerWolverhampton South EastLab (minister)no
Desmond TurnerBrighton, KemptownLabno
Dr George TurnerNorth West NorfolkLabno
Derek TwiggHaltonLabno
Stephen TwiggEnfield, SouthgateLabno
Keith VazLeicester EastLab (minister)no
Joan WalleyStoke-on-Trent NorthLab (minister)no
Claire WardWatfordLabno
Robert WareingLiverpool, West DerbyLabno
Dave WattsSt Helens NorthLab (minister)no
Mr Brian WhiteNorth East Milton KeynesLabno
Alan WhiteheadSouthampton, TestLab (minister)no
Malcolm WicksCroydon NorthLabno
Dr Alan WilliamsCarmarthen East and DinefwrLabno
Alan WilliamsSwansea WestLabno
Betty WilliamsConwyLabno
Michael WillsNorth SwindonLab (minister)no
David WinnickWalsall NorthLab (minister)no
Rosie WintertonDoncaster CentralLabno
Ms Audrey WisePrestonLabno
Phil WoolasOldham East and SaddleworthLabno
Mr Tony WorthingtonClydebank and MilngavieLabno
Anthony D WrightGreat YarmouthLabno
Derek WyattSittingbourne and SheppeyLabno
Mr Richard AllanSheffield, HallamLDem (front bench)aye
Norman BakerLewesLDem (front bench)aye
Mrs Jackie BallardTauntonLDemaye
Alan BeithBerwick-upon-TweedLDemaye
Tom BrakeCarshalton and WallingtonLDem (front bench)aye
Malcolm BruceGordonLDemaye
Mr John BurnettTorridge and West DevonLDemaye
Paul BurstowSutton and CheamLDem (front bench)aye
Vincent CableTwickenhamLDem (front bench)tellaye
Menzies CampbellNorth East FifeLDem (front bench)aye
Mr David ChidgeyEastleighLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Brian CotterWeston-Super-MareLDem (front bench)aye
Edward DaveyKingston and SurbitonLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Ronnie FearnSouthportLDemaye
Don FosterBathLDem (front bench)aye
Evan HarrisOxford West and AbingdonLDemtellaye
Nick HarveyNorth DevonLDem (front bench)aye
Simon HughesNorth Southwark and BermondseyLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Nigel JonesCheltenhamLDem (front bench)aye
Paul KeetchHerefordLDemaye
Mr Archy KirkwoodRoxburgh and BerwickshireLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Richard LivseyBrecon and RadnorshireLDem (front bench)aye
Mrs Ray MichieArgyll and ButeLDemaye
Michael MooreTweeddale, Ettrick and LauderdaleLDem (front bench)aye
Mark OatenWinchesterLDemaye
Lembit ÖpikMontgomeryshireLDemaye
Mr David RendelNewburyLDemaye
Bob RussellColchesterLDem (front bench)aye
Adrian SandersTorbayLDem (front bench)aye
Robert SmithWest Aberdeenshire and KincardineLDemaye
Andrew StunellHazel GroveLDem (front bench)aye
Dr Jenny TongeRichmond ParkLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Paul TylerNorth CornwallLDem (front bench)aye
Steve WebbNorthavonLDem (front bench)aye
Phil WillisHarrogate and KnaresboroughLDem (front bench)aye
Elfyn LlwydMeirionnydd Nant ConwyPC (front bench)aye
Andrew WelshAngusSNPaye
Mr Roy BeggsEast AntrimUUPaye

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