Comparison of Divisions: Gurkha Settlement Rights — Government defeat — 29 Apr 2009 at 15:49 with Division No. 219 on 11 Jun 2008 at 17:45

(Swap the two divisions around).

Vote (a) : Gurkha Settlement Rights — Government defeat - 29 Apr 2009 at 15:49 - Division No. 104

The majority of MPs voted in favour of the motion:[1]

  • This House
  • regrets the Government's recent statement[2] outlining the eligibility criteria for Gurkhas to reside in the United Kingdom;
  • recognises the contribution the Gurkhas have made to the safety and freedom of the United Kingdom for the past 200 years;
  • notes that more Gurkhas have laid down their lives for the United Kingdom than are estimated to want to live here;
  • believes that Gurkhas who retired before 1997 should be treated fairly and in the same way as those who have retired since;
  • is concerned that the Government's new guidelines will permit only a small minority of Gurkhas and their families to settle whilst preventing the vast majority;
  • further believes that people who are prepared to fight and die for the United Kingdom should be entitled to live in the country; and
  • calls upon the Government to withdraw its new guidelines immediately and bring forward revised proposals that extend an equal right of residence to all Gurkhas.

As a consequence, the alternative Government motion, which read:[3]

  • This House
  • recognises that this Government is the only one since the Second World War to allow Gurkhas and their families settlement rights to the United Kingdom;
  • notes that in 2004 the Government permitted settlement rights to Gurkhas discharged since 1997, following the transfer of the Brigade HQ from Hong Kong to the United Kingdom;
  • further notes that under these rules around 6,000 Gurkhas and family members have been welcomed to the UK;
  • acknowledges that the court judgement of September 2008 determined that the 1997 cut-off date was fair and rational, while seeking clarification of the criteria for settlement rights for those who retired before 1997;
  • further notes that on 24 April the Government published new and more generous guidelines for the settlement applications of Gurkhas who retired before 1997;
  • supports this revised guidance, which will make around 10,000 Gurkhas and family members eligible to settle in the UK;
  • further notes that the Government undertakes actively to inform those who may be eligible in Nepal of these changes and to review the impact of the new guidance within 12 months;
  • further notes that the contribution Gurkhas have made is already recognised by pensions paid to around 25,000 Gurkhas or their widows in Nepal that allow for a good standard of living there; and
  • further notes that in the year 2000 Gurkha pensions were doubled and that, earlier in April 2009, in addition to an inflationary uplift of 14 per cent., those over 80 years old received a 20 per cent. increase in their pension.

... was never voted upon.

Although this extremely rare Government defeat in an opposition day motion is not binding (has no legal force)[4] a Government minister made a statement later in the day to bring "forward the date for the determination of the outstanding applications to the end of May."[5]

Vote (b) : Counter-Terrorism Bill — Extension of Maximim Period of Police Detention Without Charge in Terror Cases from 28 to 42 Days - 11 Jun 2008 at 17:45 - Division No. 219

The majority of MPs voted to extend the period of police detention without making any criminal charges of terrorist suspects from 28 days[1] to 42 days, subject to a complex series of bureaucratic procedures. See also the next vote which outlined the powers themselves.

The procedures include:

  • Statement - The Home Secretary must make a statement that a grave exceptional terrorist threat has occurred or is occurring for which this power to detain suspects without charge beyond 28 days is necessary for the purposes of investigation and bringing to justice those responsible.[2]
  • Legal advice - Independent legal advice (from a lawyer not employed by the Government) must be obtained as to whether the Home Secretary can be properly satisfied by his or her statement.[3]
  • DPP report - A report must be made by the Director of Public Prosecutions and the chief police officer which states that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the detention of one or more persons beyond 28 days will be necessary to obtain or preserve evidence that relates to the commission by the detained person or persons of a serious terrorist offence.[4]
  • Committee chairs - A copy of the legal advice and the report must be provided in confidence to the chairmen of the Home Affairs Committee, Joint Committee on Human Rights, and the Intelligence and Security Committee.[5]

Although this threatened to be the largest Labour Party rebellion for Gordon Brown,[6] a bigger one occurred six weeks earlier.[7]

A comparison between MPs' votes on the 90 day detention and this 42 day detention is here or reported in the Guardian here. The list of related Parliamentary votes on detaining persons without charge is here.

Public Whip is run as a free not-for-profit service. If you'd like to support us, please consider switching your (UK) electricity and/or gas to Octopus Energy or tip us via Ko-Fi.

Difference in Votes - sorted by party

MPs for which their vote on Motion (a) differed from their inverted vote on Motion (b). You can also see just opposite votes between these two divisions, or simply all the votes.

Sort by: Name | Constituency | Party | Vote (a) | Vote (b)

NameConstituencyPartyVote (a)Vote (b)
Ann WiddecombeMaidstone and The WealdConaye aye
John BercowBuckinghamwhilst Con (front bench)aye absent
John HowellHenleyCon (front bench)aye absent
Brian BinleyNorthampton SouthCon (front bench)absent no
Tim BoswellDaventryCon (front bench)absent no
John ButterfillBournemouth WestCon (front bench)absent no
James ClappisonHertsmereCon (front bench)absent no
Kenneth ClarkeRushcliffeCon (front bench)absent no
David DavisHaltemprice and HowdenConabsent no
Nigel EvansRibble ValleyConabsent no
James GrayNorth WiltshireCon (front bench)absent no
John GreenwayRyedaleConabsent no
Oliver HealdNorth East HertfordshireCon (front bench)absent no
David Heathcoat-AmoryWellsCon (front bench)absent no
John HoramOrpingtonCon (front bench)absent no
Michael JackFyldeCon (front bench)absent no
Julie KirkbrideBromsgroveCon (front bench)absent no
Peter LuffMid WorcestershireCon (front bench)absent no
Humfrey MalinsWokingCon (front bench)absent no
John MaplesStratford-on-AvonCon (front bench)absent no
Michael MatesEast HampshireCon (front bench)absent no
Francis MaudeHorshamCon (front bench)absent no
Malcolm MossNorth East CambridgeshireCon (front bench)absent no
David MundellDumfriesshire, Clydesdale and TweeddaleCon (front bench)absent no
Owen PatersonNorth ShropshireCon (front bench)absent no
John StanleyTonbridge and MallingCon (front bench)absent no
Robert WalterNorth DorsetConabsent no
David WilshireSpelthorneCon (front bench)absent no
Gregory CampbellEast LondonderryDUP (front bench)aye aye
Nigel DoddsBelfast NorthDUP (front bench)aye aye
Jeffrey M. DonaldsonLagan ValleyDUP (front bench)aye aye
William McCreaSouth AntrimDUP (front bench)aye aye
Peter RobinsonBelfast EastDUPaye aye
Sammy WilsonEast AntrimDUP (front bench)aye aye
Ian PaisleyNorth AntrimDUPabsent aye
Iris RobinsonStrangfordDUP (front bench)absent aye
David SimpsonUpper BannDUP (front bench)absent aye
Dai DaviesBlaenau GwentIndependentaye aye
Bob SpinkCastle Pointwhilst Independent (front bench)aye absent
Derek ConwayOld Bexley and Sidcupwhilst Independent (front bench)absent no
Clare ShortBirmingham, Ladywoodwhilst Independent Labourabsent no
Ian CawseyBrigg and GooleLab (minister)aye aye
Joan HumbleBlackpool North and FleetwoodLab (minister)aye aye
Gordon MarsdenBlackpool SouthLabaye aye
Shona McIsaacCleethorpesLab (minister)aye aye
Nick PalmerBroxtoweLab (minister)aye aye
Steve PoundEaling NorthLab (minister)aye aye
Andy ReedLoughboroughLab (minister)aye aye
Andrew SmithOxford EastLabaye aye
Keith VazLeicester EastLab (minister)aye aye
Nick RaynsfordGreenwich and WoolwichLabaye absent
Paul TruswellPudseyLabaye absent
Jim CousinsNewcastle upon Tyne CentralLab (minister)no no
Andrew DismoreHendonLab (minister)no no
Frank DobsonHolborn and St PancrasLabno no
David DrewStroudLab (minister)no no
John GroganSelbyLab (minister)no no
Dai HavardMerthyr Tydfil and RhymneyLab (minister)no no
Chris MullinSunderland SouthLab (minister)no no
Doug NaysmithBristol North WestLab (minister)no no
Gordon PrenticePendleLab (minister)no no
Emily ThornberryIslington South and FinsburyLab (minister)no no
David WinnickWalsall NorthLab (minister)no no
Charlotte AtkinsStaffordshire MoorlandsLab (minister)no absent
Lindsay RoyGlenrothesLab (minister)no absent
Mark ToddSouth DerbyshireLab (minister)no absent
David TaylorNorth West LeicestershireLab (minister)both both
Adrian BaileyWest Bromwich WestLab (minister)absent aye
John BattleLeeds WestLab (minister)absent aye
Hilary BennLeeds CentralLab (minister)absent aye
Colin BurgonElmetLababsent aye
Stephen ByersNorth TynesideLababsent aye
Richard CabornSheffield CentralLababsent aye
Ronnie CampbellBlyth ValleyLababsent aye
Michael ClaphamBarnsley West and PenistoneLab (minister)absent aye
Charles ClarkeNorwich SouthLab (minister)absent aye
Jon CruddasDagenhamLababsent aye
Claire Curtis-ThomasCrosbyLababsent aye
Jim DobbinHeywood and MiddletonLab (minister)absent aye
Frank FieldBirkenheadLab (minister)absent aye
Mike GapesIlford SouthLab (minister)absent aye
Mike HallWeaver ValeLab (minister)absent aye
Patrick HallBedfordLab (minister)absent aye
Fabian HamiltonLeeds North EastLab (minister)absent aye
Doug HendersonNewcastle upon Tyne NorthLababsent aye
David HeyesAshton-under-LyneLab (minister)absent aye
Meg HillierHackney South and ShoreditchLab (minister)absent aye
Margaret HodgeBarkingLababsent aye
Jimmy HoodLanark and Hamilton EastLab (minister)absent aye
Geoff HoonAshfieldLab (minister)absent aye
Lindsay HoyleChorleyLab (minister)absent aye
Eric IllsleyBarnsley CentralLab (minister)absent aye
Siân JamesSwansea EastLab (minister)absent aye
Martyn JonesClwyd SouthLab (minister)absent aye
Ashok KumarMiddlesbrough South and East ClevelandLababsent aye
Ivan LewisBury SouthLab (minister)absent aye
Martin LintonBatterseaLababsent aye
John MacDougallGlenrothesLababsent aye
Denis MacShaneRotherhamLababsent aye
Khalid MahmoodBirmingham, Perry BarrLababsent aye
Judy MallaberAmber ValleyLab (minister)absent aye
John MannBassetlawLab (minister)absent aye
Chris McCaffertyCalder ValleyLababsent aye
Anne McGuireStirlingLababsent aye
Alan MealeMansfieldLababsent aye
David MilibandSouth ShieldsLab (minister)absent aye
Ed MilibandDoncaster NorthLab (minister)absent aye
Austin MitchellGreat GrimsbyLab (minister)absent aye
Anne MoffatEast LothianLab (minister)absent aye
Kali MountfordColne ValleyLab (minister)absent aye
Sandra OsborneAyr, Carrick and CumnockLab (minister)absent aye
Greg PopeHyndburnLab (minister)absent aye
Bridget PrenticeLewisham EastLab (minister)absent aye
John PrescottKingston upon Hull EastLababsent aye
Bill RammellHarlowLab (minister)absent aye
Jamie ReedCopelandLab (minister)absent aye
John ReidAirdrie and ShottsLababsent aye
John RobertsonGlasgow North WestLab (minister)absent aye
Martin SalterReading WestLab (minister)absent aye
Marsha SinghBradford WestLab (minister)absent aye
Anne SnelgroveSouth SwindonLababsent aye
Gavin StrangEdinburgh EastLab (minister)absent aye
Gisela StuartBirmingham, EdgbastonLab (minister)absent aye
Paddy TippingSherwoodLab (minister)absent aye
Neil TurnerWiganLab (minister)absent aye
Betty WilliamsConwyLababsent aye
Shaun WoodwardSt Helens SouthLab (minister)absent aye
Anthony D WrightGreat YarmouthLab (minister)absent aye
Richard BurdenBirmingham, NorthfieldLab (minister)absent no
Katy ClarkNorth Ayrshire and ArranLab (minister)absent no
Frank CookStockton NorthLab (minister)absent no
Paul FlynnNewport WestLab (minister)absent no
Ian GibsonNorwich NorthLab (minister)absent no
Roger GodsiffBirmingham, Sparkbrook and Small HeathLababsent no
Lynne JonesBirmingham, Selly OakLab (minister)absent no
Peter KilfoyleLiverpool, WaltonLababsent no
Michael MeacherOldham West and RoytonLababsent no
Alistair CarmichaelOrkney and ShetlandLDem (front bench)absent no
Sandra GidleyRomseyLDem (front bench)absent no
Mike HancockPortsmouth SouthLDem (front bench)absent no
Paul KeetchHerefordLDem (front bench)absent no
Charles KennedyRoss, Skye and LochaberLDemabsent no
Mark OatenWinchesterLDem (front bench)absent no
Lembit ÖpikMontgomeryshireLDem (front bench)absent no
Paul RowenRochdaleLDem (front bench)absent tellno
Jo SwinsonEast DunbartonshireLDem (front bench)absent no
Roger WilliamsBrecon and RadnorshireLDem (front bench)absent no
George GallowayBethnal Green and BowRespectabsent no
Mark DurkanFoyleSDLP (front bench)absent no
Eddie McGradySouth DownSDLPabsent no
John MasonGlasgow EastSNP (front bench)aye absent
Stewart HosieDundee EastSNP (front bench)absent no
Angus MacNeilNa h-Eileanan an IarSNP (front bench)absent no
Alex SalmondBanff and BuchanSNP (front bench)absent no
Bob SpinkCastle Pointwhilst UKIP (front bench)absent aye
Sylvia HermonNorth DownUUP (front bench)aye aye

Division Similarity Ratio

The measure of similarity between these two divisions is a calculation based on a comparison of their votes.

There were 646 MPs who could have voted in both of these divisions, and 30 voted the same way, with 477 voting in opposite ways. There were 16 MPs who didn't vote in either division, and 123 who voted in only one of them.

We invert the vote on the second division if it makes the distance closer (since the meaning of 'Aye' and 'No' are often interchangeable depending on how the question was put). In this case, they line up on opposite sides. An 's vote in in only one of the divisions contributes a factor of 0.2 to the distance. The calculation runs as follows:

ratio =
[same-votes]
([same-votes] + [differing-votes] + 0.2x[abstain-in-one])
=
477
(477 + 30 + 0.2x123)
=
477
531.6
= 0.897 = 89.7 %.


About the Project

The Public Whip is a not-for-profit, open source website created in 2003 by Francis Irving and Julian Todd and now run by Bairwell Ltd.

The Whip on the Web

Help keep PublicWhip alive