Tax Credits Bill — Payment Of Tax Credit By Employers Etc — 17 Mar 1999

I beg to move amendment No. 7, in page 3, line 35, at end insert

'except that an employee shall be entitled to make an election to receive payment of the tax credit to which he is entitled directly from the Board.'.

credit. That is not true. In many cases, an employee can provide sufficient documentary evidence of pay and hours worked without approaching the employer. In any case, a "once and for all" approach is different from a week in, week out--or month in, month out--notification from the Inland Revenue that an employee is receiving working families tax credit. That is what will happen under the new payment system.

If the Government insist upon claiming that employers must be contacted, I simply refer them to the CBI's brief for this debate:

"At present a significant number of employers may never know that their employees are receiving Family Credit. Up to a third of employees claiming credit do so without their employer's knowledge--either because they provide enough information and their employer does not need to be contacted or because employers provide information without realising that their employees are claiming Family Credit."

This amendment gives the recipient the option of having the benefit paid directly. It is thus for him or her to decide whether having it paid through the payroll will increase the stigma. After all, it is recipients, not Ministers, who will suffer the embarrassment if the Government are wrong and the benefit increases stigma.

That view is shared by the TUC:

"The TUC . . . strongly recommends that choice of payment system should apply to all households, including those headed by lone parents."

The TUC has other concerns that could be alleviated by the amendment. In its Budget representations, the TUC says that family credit has

"by and large, enhanced job security for many people in low paid jobs by delivering financial assistance to them in a direct and timely fashion."

It continues:

"There is a real danger that the working families tax credit will fail to replicate this if the wage packet is to be the primary means of delivering the tax credit."

The concern is that payment may be interrupted if the benefit is paid through the payroll. That is the view of the Low Pay Unit, which says:

"The low paid are least able to afford interruptions or delays in payment of benefits."

When an employee envisages the possibility that his employer may interrupt benefit payment, he should be given the option of having the payments made to him directly by the Inland Revenue. That is a key concern of the TUC, which believes that working families tax credit is

"much more liable to disruption."

It is also the main concern of the National Council for One Parent Families:

"a default option is needed so lone parents can be paid direct rather than through the wage packet if there is a short-term contract, more than one employer, very low wages or the firm is too small to deal with the claim."

The problem of interrupted payments is particularly acute if there is a trade dispute. The glossy document from the Inland Revenue that explains the way the working families tax credit operates explains that if a trade dispute lasts for longer than one pay period, the employer will not be expected to continue to pay the working families tax credit. Instead, the employer should issue a certificate of payment to the employee who must then take it to the Inland Revenue, which will pay the working families tax credit directly.

That is the theory; the reality will be delays. There will be delays when the employer issues the certificate--assuming that he gets round to doing that, as he is in the middle of a trade dispute--delays at the Inland Revenue when the employee hands in the certificate, and delays in payment. Those on very low incomes cannot sustain such delays. That is another reason why we believe people should be given the option of having the working families tax credit paid directly.

Question put, That the amendment be made:--

The House divided: Ayes 164, Noes 296.

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Frank DoranAberdeen CentralLabno
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Anne BeggAberdeen SouthLab (minister)no
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Judy MallaberAmber ValleyLabno
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Mike WoodBatley and SpenLabno
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Jacqui LaitBeckenhamConaye
Patrick HallBedfordLabno
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Mr James CranBeverley and HoldernessConaye
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John ButterfillBournemouth WestConaye
Terry RooneyBradford NorthLabno
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Marsha SinghBradford WestLabno
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Ken LivingstoneBrent Eastwhilst Labno
Ann KeenBrentford and IsleworthLabno
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Desmond TurnerBrighton, KemptownLabno
Ms Jean CorstonBristol EastLabno
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Mrs Anne CampbellCambridgeLabno
Tony WrightCannock ChaseLabno
Mr Jon Owen JonesCardiff CentralLab (minister)no
Julie MorganCardiff NorthLabno
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Eric MartlewCarlisleLabno
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Tom BrakeCarshalton and WallingtonLDem (front bench)aye
Mrs Christine ButlerCastle PointLabno
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Mr Stephen DayCheadleConaye
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Lindsay HoyleChorleyLab (minister)no
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Christine RussellCity of ChesterLabno
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Tom ClarkeCoatbridge and ChrystonLabno
Bob RussellColchesterLDem (front bench)aye
Kali MountfordColne ValleyLabno
Ann WintertonCongletonConaye
Phil HopeCorbyLabno
Geoffrey Clifton-BrownCotswoldCon (front bench)aye
Bob AinsworthCoventry North EastLab (minister)no
Jim CunninghamCoventry SouthLab (minister)no
Malcolm WicksCroydon NorthLabno
Rosemary McKennaCumbernauld and KilsythLabno
Brian H DonohoeCunninghame SouthLab (minister)no
Ann ClwydCynon ValleyLab (minister)no
Howard StoateDartfordLabno
Tim BoswellDaventryCon (front bench)aye
David HansonDelynLab (minister)no
Mr Andrew BennettDenton and ReddishLabno
Bob LaxtonDerby NorthLabno
Margaret BeckettDerby SouthLab (minister)no
Michael AncramDevizesCon (front bench)aye
Mrs Ann TaylorDewsburyLab (minister)no
Caroline FlintDon ValleyLab (minister)no
Rosie WintertonDoncaster CentralLabno
Mr Kevin HughesDoncaster NorthLab (minister)no
Gwyn ProsserDoverLabno
Professor Ross CranstonDudley NorthLab (minister)no
Ian PearsonDudley SouthLabno
John McFallDumbartonLab (minister)no
Russell BrownDumfriesLabno
John McAllionDundee EastLabno
Mr Ernie RossDundee WestLabno
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Rachel SquireDunfermline WestLabno
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Jim MurphyEast RenfrewshireLabno
Tim LoughtonEast Worthing and ShorehamCon (front bench)aye
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Ian StewartEcclesLabno
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Alistair DarlingEdinburgh CentralLab (minister)no
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Donald GorrieEdinburgh WestLDemaye
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Joan RyanEnfield NorthLabno
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Michael ConnartyFalkirk EastLab (minister)no
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Mr Ken MaginnisFermanagh and South TyroneUUPaye
Rudi VisFinchley and Golders GreenLabno
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Alasdair MorganGalloway and Upper NithsdaleSNPaye
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Vernon CoakerGedlingLabno
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Mr John MaxtonGlasgow CathcartLabno
George GallowayGlasgow KelvinLabno
Mrs Maria FyfeGlasgow MaryhillLabno
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Thomas McAvoyGlasgow RutherglenLab (minister)no
David MarshallGlasgow ShettlestonLabno
Ms Tess KinghamGloucesterLabno
Martin CatonGowerLab (minister)no
Anthony D WrightGreat YarmouthLabno
Mr Nick St AubynGuildfordConaye
Diane AbbottHackney North and Stoke NewingtonLab (minister)no
Mr Brian SedgemoreHackney South and ShoreditchLabno
Mrs Alice MahonHalifaxLabno
David DavisHaltemprice and HowdenCon (front bench)aye
Derek TwiggHaltonLab (minister)no
John ReidHamilton North and BellshillLab (minister)no
Mr Iain ColemanHammersmith and FulhamLabno
Glenda JacksonHampstead and HighgateLab (minister)no
Edward GarnierHarboroughConaye
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Tony McNultyHarrow EastLabno
Gareth ThomasHarrow WestLab (minister)no
Mr Peter MandelsonHartlepoolLabno
Mr Ivan HendersonHarwichLabno
Michael Jabez FosterHastings and RyeLabno
David WillettsHavantCon (front bench)aye
John Martin McDonnellHayes and HarlingtonLabno
Mr Tony McWalterHemel HempsteadLabno
Jon TrickettHemsworthLabno
Andrew DismoreHendonLabno
Paul KeetchHerefordLDemaye
Jim DobbinHeywood and MiddletonLabno
Tom LevittHigh PeakLabno
Peter LilleyHitchin and HarpendenCon (front bench)aye
Mrs Barbara RocheHornsey and Wood GreenLab (minister)no
Francis MaudeHorshamCon (front bench)aye
Fraser KempHoughton and Washington EastLabno
Mr Ivor CaplinHoveLabno
Barry SheermanHuddersfieldLabno
Mr John MajorHuntingdonConaye
Greg PopeHyndburnLab (minister)no
Mr David StewartInverness East, Nairn and LochaberLabno
Don TouhigIslwynLabno
Stephen HepburnJarrowLab (minister)no
Ann CryerKeighleyLabno
Mr Phil SawfordKetteringLabno
Des BrowneKilmarnock and LoudounLabno
John PrescottKingston upon Hull EastLab (minister)no
Mr Kevin McNamaraKingston upon Hull NorthLabno
Alan JohnsonKingston upon Hull West and HessleLabno
Roger BerryKingswoodLabno
Dr Lewis MoonieKirkcaldyLab (minister)no
George HowarthKnowsley North and Sefton EastLab (minister)no
Edward O'HaraKnowsley SouthLabno
Jeffrey M. DonaldsonLagan ValleyUUP (front bench)aye
Mr Hilton DawsonLancaster and WyreLabno
Mr Harold BestLeeds North WestLabno
John BattleLeeds WestLab (minister)no
Keith VazLeicester EastLabno
Dr Jim MarshallLeicester SouthLabno
Patricia HewittLeicester WestLab (minister)no
Mr Lawrence CunliffeLeighLabno
Mr Peter Temple-MorrisLeominsterwhilst Labno
Norman BakerLewesLDem (front bench)aye
Bridget PrenticeLewisham EastLabno
Jim DowdLewisham WestLab (minister)tellno
Joan RuddockLewisham, DeptfordLabno
Michael FabricantLichfieldConaye
Gillian MerronLincolnLabno
Mr Tam DalyellLinlithgowLabno
Louise EllmanLiverpool, RiversideLabno
Peter KilfoyleLiverpool, WaltonLab (minister)no
Jane KennedyLiverpool, WavertreeLab (minister)tellno
Robert WareingLiverpool, West DerbyLabno
Mr Denzil DaviesLlanelliLabno
Peter TapsellLouth and HorncastleConaye
Mr Christopher GillLudlowConaye
Kelvin HopkinsLuton NorthLabno
Margaret MoranLuton SouthLabno
Nicholas WintertonMacclesfieldConaye
Theresa MayMaidenheadCon (front bench)aye
John WhittingdaleMaldon and East ChelmsfordCon (front bench)aye
Tony LloydManchester CentralLab (minister)no
Graham StringerManchester, BlackleyLab (minister)no
Gerald KaufmanManchester, GortonLab (minister)no
Mr Keith BradleyManchester, WithingtonLab (minister)no
Alan MealeMansfieldLab (minister)no
Caroline SpelmanMeridenCon (front bench)tellaye
Mr Jonathan SayeedMid BedfordshireConaye
Christopher FraserMid Dorset and North PooleConaye
Nicholas SoamesMid SussexConaye
Peter LuffMid WorcestershireCon (front bench)aye
Stuart BellMiddlesbroughLab (minister)no
Phyllis StarkeyMilton Keynes South WestLabno
Siobhain McDonaghMitcham and MordenLabno
Paul BeresfordMole ValleyCon (front bench)aye
Mr Huw EdwardsMonmouthLabno
Lembit ÖpikMontgomeryshireLDemaye
Margaret EwingMoraySNPaye
Geraldine SmithMorecambe and LunesdaleLabno
Frank RoyMotherwell and WishawLabno
Mr Calum MacDonaldNa h-Eileanan an IarLab (minister)no
Julian LewisNew Forest EastCon (front bench)aye
Desmond SwayneNew Forest WestCon (front bench)aye
Mr David RendelNewburyLDemaye
Jim CousinsNewcastle upon Tyne CentralLabno
Nick BrownNewcastle upon Tyne East and WallsendLab (minister)no
Mrs Llin GoldingNewcastle-under-LymeLabno
Paul FlynnNewport WestLabno
Mr Paul TylerNorth CornwallLDem (front bench)aye
Nick HarveyNorth DevonLDemaye
Sir Nicholas LyellNorth East BedfordshireCon (front bench)aye
Malcolm MossNorth East CambridgeshireConaye
Mr Harry BarnesNorth East DerbyshireLabno
James ArbuthnotNorth East HampshireCon (front bench)aye
Oliver HealdNorth East HertfordshireCon (front bench)aye
Mr Brian WhiteNorth East Milton KeynesLabno
Bernard JenkinNorth EssexCon (front bench)aye
Mr David PriorNorth NorfolkConaye
Owen PatersonNorth ShropshireCon (front bench)aye
Simon HughesNorth Southwark and BermondseyLDem (front bench)aye
Mike O'BrienNorth WarwickshireLab (minister)no
Dr Brian MawhinneyNorth West CambridgeshireConaye
Hilary ArmstrongNorth West DurhamLab (minister)no
George YoungNorth West HampshireCon (front bench)aye
Dr George TurnerNorth West NorfolkLabno
James GrayNorth WiltshireCon (front bench)aye
Sally KeebleNorthampton NorthLabno
Mr Tony ClarkeNorthampton SouthLabno
Steve WebbNorthavonLDem (front bench)aye
Ian GibsonNorwich NorthLabno
Charles ClarkeNorwich SouthLab (minister)no
John HeppellNottingham EastLabno
Graham AllenNottingham NorthLab (minister)no
Alan SimpsonNottingham SouthLabno
Bill OlnerNuneatonLabno
Mr Martin O'NeillOchilLab (minister)no
Mr Raymond PowellOgmoreLabno
Michael MeacherOldham West and RoytonLab (minister)no
Jim WallaceOrkney and ShetlandLDemaye
John HoramOrpingtonConaye
Andrew SmithOxford EastLab (minister)no
Evan HarrisOxford West and AbingdonLDemaye
Mrs Irene AdamsPaisley NorthLab (minister)no
Gordon PrenticePendleLabno
David MacleanPenrith and The BorderConaye
Ms Helen ClarkPeterboroughLabno
Mr David JamiesonPlymouth, DevonportLab (minister)no
Linda GilroyPlymouth, SuttonLabno
Yvette CooperPontefract and CastlefordLab (minister)no
Robert SymsPooleCon (front bench)aye
Jim FitzpatrickPoplar and Canning TownLabno
Mr Syd RapsonPortsmouth NorthLabno
Mrs Jackie LawrencePreseli PembrokeshireLabno
Dr Michael ClarkRayleighConaye
Ms Jane GriffithsReading EastLabno
Jacqui SmithRedditchLabno
Karen BuckRegent's Park and Kensington NorthLab (minister)no
Nigel EvansRibble ValleyConaye
Dr Jenny TongeRichmond ParkLDem (front bench)aye
Ms Lorna FitzsimonsRochdaleLabno
Mr Teddy TaylorRochford and Southend EastConaye
Mr Michael ColvinRomseyConaye
Charles KennedyRoss, Skye and Inverness WestLDem (front bench)aye
Kevin BarronRother ValleyLab (minister)no
Denis MacShaneRotherhamLabno
Mr Archy KirkwoodRoxburgh and BerwickshireLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Andy KingRugby and KenilworthLabno
Mr John WilkinsonRuislip - NorthwoodConaye
Philip HammondRunnymede and WeybridgeCon (front bench)aye
Kenneth ClarkeRushcliffeConaye
Alan DuncanRutland and MeltonCon (front bench)aye
John GreenwayRyedaleConaye
Hazel BlearsSalfordLabno
Robert KeySalisburyConaye
Elliot MorleyScunthorpeLab (minister)no
John GroganSelbyLab (minister)no
Michael FallonSevenoaksConaye
Richard CabornSheffield CentralLab (minister)no
Clive BettsSheffield, AttercliffeLab (minister)no
David BlunkettSheffield, BrightsideLab (minister)no
Mr Bill MichieSheffield, HeeleyLabno
Mrs Helen JacksonSheffield, HillsboroughLabno
Chris LeslieShipleyLabno
Mr Paul MarsdenShrewsbury and AtchamLabno
Derek WyattSittingbourne and SheppeyLabno
David CurrySkipton and RiponConaye
Fiona MactaggartSloughLabno
Mr John TaylorSolihullConaye
Mr Clifford ForsytheSouth AntrimUUPaye
Andrew LansleySouth CambridgeshireCon (front bench)aye
Mark ToddSouth DerbyshireLabno
Mr Ian BruceSouth DorsetConaye
James PaiceSouth East CambridgeshireCon (front bench)aye
Colin BreedSouth East CornwallLDemaye
John HayesSouth Holland and The DeepingsCon (front bench)aye
Mr John MacGregorSouth NorfolkConaye
David BorrowSouth RibbleLabno
Dr David ClarkSouth ShieldsLabno
Patrick CormackSouth StaffordshireCon (front bench)aye
Tim YeoSouth SuffolkCon (front bench)aye
Stephen LadymanSouth ThanetLabno
Mr David MadelSouth West BedfordshireContellaye
Gary StreeterSouth West DevonCon (front bench)aye
Mr Richard PageSouth West HertfordshireConaye
Mrs Gillian ShephardSouth West NorfolkCon (front bench)aye
Mrs Virginia BottomleySouth West SurreyConaye
John DenhamSouthampton, ItchenLab (minister)no
Mr Ronnie FearnSouthportLDemaye
Mr Kerry PollardSt AlbansLabno
Dave WattsSt Helens NorthLab (minister)no
Mr Gerry BerminghamSt Helens SouthLabno
Andrew GeorgeSt IvesLDem (front bench)aye
David KidneyStaffordLabno
Charlotte AtkinsStaffordshire MoorlandsLabno
Barbara FollettStevenageLabno
Anne McGuireStirlingLab (minister)no
Ann CoffeyStockportLabno
Frank CookStockton NorthLabno
Mark FisherStoke-on-Trent CentralLabno
Joan WalleyStoke-on-Trent NorthLab (minister)no
Mr George StevensonStoke-on-Trent SouthLabno
Bill CashStoneCon (front bench)aye
John TaylorStrangfordUUPaye
John MaplesStratford-on-AvonCon (front bench)aye
Keith HillStreathamLab (minister)no
Bill EtheringtonSunderland NorthLabno
Chris MullinSunderland SouthLabno
Paul BurstowSutton and CheamLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Norman FowlerSutton ColdfieldCon (front bench)aye
Brian JenkinsTamworthLabno
Mrs Jackie BallardTauntonLDemaye
Mr Patrick NichollsTeignbridgeConaye
Mr Bruce GrocottTelfordLabno
Laurence RobertsonTewkesburyCon (front bench)aye
Mr Peter BradleyThe WrekinLabno
Angela BrowningTiverton and HonitonConaye
Mr Tom CoxTootingLabno
Adrian SandersTorbayLDem (front bench)aye
Paul MurphyTorfaenLab (minister)no
Mr John BurnettTorridge and West DevonLDemaye
Anthony SteenTotnesConaye
Matthew TaylorTruro and St AustellLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Archie NormanTunbridge WellsConaye
Michael MooreTweeddale, Ettrick and LauderdaleLDem (front bench)aye
David ClellandTyne BridgeLab (minister)no
Alan CampbellTynemouthLab (minister)no
Mr Keith DarvillUpminsterLabno
John RandallUxbridgeCon (front bench)aye
Chris RuaneVale of ClwydLab (minister)no
Anne McIntoshVale of YorkConaye
Kate HoeyVauxhallLab (minister)no
Angela EagleWallaseyLab (minister)no
David WinnickWalsall NorthLab (minister)no
Neil GerrardWalthamstowLabno
Denis MurphyWansbeckLabno
Dan NorrisWansdykeLabno
Robert JacksonWantageConaye
Helen JonesWarrington NorthLab (minister)no
Helen SouthworthWarrington SouthLabno
James PlaskittWarwick and LeamingtonLabno
Claire WardWatfordLabno
Bob BlizzardWaveneyLabno
Sir Geoffrey Johnson SmithWealdenConaye
Mr Paul StinchcombeWellingboroughLabno
David Heathcoat-AmoryWellsConaye
Miss Melanie JohnsonWelwyn HatfieldLabno
John HealeyWentworthLab (minister)no
Robert SmithWest Aberdeenshire and KincardineLDemaye
Simon BurnsWest ChelmsfordConaye
Patrick McLoughlinWest DerbyshireCon (front bench)aye
Oliver LetwinWest DorsetCon (front bench)aye
Mr Tony BanksWest HamLab (minister)no
Mr Colin PickthallWest LancashireLabno
Mr William ThompsonWest TyroneUUPaye
Michael SpicerWest WorcestershireCon (front bench)aye
Mr David FaberWestburyConaye
Mr Tim CollinsWestmorland and LonsdaleConaye
Mr Brian CotterWeston-Super-MareLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Roger CasaleWimbledonLabno
Mark OatenWinchesterLDemaye
Mr Michael TrendWindsorConaye
Ben ChapmanWirral SouthLabno
Shaun WoodwardWitneywhilst Con (front bench)aye
Humfrey MalinsWokingConaye
John RedwoodWokinghamCon (front bench)aye
Ken PurchaseWolverhampton North EastLabno
Mr Dennis TurnerWolverhampton South EastLab (minister)no
Michael FosterWorcesterLabno
Mr Terry LewisWorsleyLabno
Sir Ray WhitneyWycombeConaye
Mr David LockWyre ForestLabno
Paul GogginsWythenshawe and Sale EastLabno
Mr Paddy AshdownYeovilLDem (front bench)aye

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