Tax Credits Bill — Payment Of Tax Credit By Employers Etc — 17 Mar 1999

I beg to move amendment No. 7, in page 3, line 35, at end insert

'except that an employee shall be entitled to make an election to receive payment of the tax credit to which he is entitled directly from the Board.'.

credit. That is not true. In many cases, an employee can provide sufficient documentary evidence of pay and hours worked without approaching the employer. In any case, a "once and for all" approach is different from a week in, week out--or month in, month out--notification from the Inland Revenue that an employee is receiving working families tax credit. That is what will happen under the new payment system.

If the Government insist upon claiming that employers must be contacted, I simply refer them to the CBI's brief for this debate:

"At present a significant number of employers may never know that their employees are receiving Family Credit. Up to a third of employees claiming credit do so without their employer's knowledge--either because they provide enough information and their employer does not need to be contacted or because employers provide information without realising that their employees are claiming Family Credit."

This amendment gives the recipient the option of having the benefit paid directly. It is thus for him or her to decide whether having it paid through the payroll will increase the stigma. After all, it is recipients, not Ministers, who will suffer the embarrassment if the Government are wrong and the benefit increases stigma.

That view is shared by the TUC:

"The TUC . . . strongly recommends that choice of payment system should apply to all households, including those headed by lone parents."

The TUC has other concerns that could be alleviated by the amendment. In its Budget representations, the TUC says that family credit has

"by and large, enhanced job security for many people in low paid jobs by delivering financial assistance to them in a direct and timely fashion."

It continues:

"There is a real danger that the working families tax credit will fail to replicate this if the wage packet is to be the primary means of delivering the tax credit."

The concern is that payment may be interrupted if the benefit is paid through the payroll. That is the view of the Low Pay Unit, which says:

"The low paid are least able to afford interruptions or delays in payment of benefits."

When an employee envisages the possibility that his employer may interrupt benefit payment, he should be given the option of having the payments made to him directly by the Inland Revenue. That is a key concern of the TUC, which believes that working families tax credit is

"much more liable to disruption."

It is also the main concern of the National Council for One Parent Families:

"a default option is needed so lone parents can be paid direct rather than through the wage packet if there is a short-term contract, more than one employer, very low wages or the firm is too small to deal with the claim."

The problem of interrupted payments is particularly acute if there is a trade dispute. The glossy document from the Inland Revenue that explains the way the working families tax credit operates explains that if a trade dispute lasts for longer than one pay period, the employer will not be expected to continue to pay the working families tax credit. Instead, the employer should issue a certificate of payment to the employee who must then take it to the Inland Revenue, which will pay the working families tax credit directly.

That is the theory; the reality will be delays. There will be delays when the employer issues the certificate--assuming that he gets round to doing that, as he is in the middle of a trade dispute--delays at the Inland Revenue when the employee hands in the certificate, and delays in payment. Those on very low incomes cannot sustain such delays. That is another reason why we believe people should be given the option of having the working families tax credit paid directly.

Question put, That the amendment be made:--

The House divided: Ayes 164, Noes 296.

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Phil HopeCorbyLabno
Kelvin HopkinsLuton NorthLabno
John HoramOrpingtonConaye
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George HowarthKnowsley North and Sefton EastLab (minister)no
Gerald HowarthAldershotCon (front bench)aye
Lindsay HoyleChorleyLab (minister)no
Mr Kevin HughesDoncaster NorthLab (minister)no
Simon HughesNorth Southwark and BermondseyLDem (front bench)aye
Joan HumbleBlackpool North and FleetwoodLabno
Mr Andrew HunterBasingstokeConaye
Mr Alan HurstBraintreeLabno
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Brian IddonBolton South EastLabno
Michael JackFyldeConaye
Glenda JacksonHampstead and HighgateLab (minister)no
Mrs Helen JacksonSheffield, HillsboroughLabno
Robert JacksonWantageConaye
Mr David JamiesonPlymouth, DevonportLab (minister)no
Bernard JenkinNorth EssexCon (front bench)aye
Brian JenkinsTamworthLabno
Alan JohnsonKingston upon Hull West and HessleLabno
Miss Melanie JohnsonWelwyn HatfieldLabno
Sir Geoffrey Johnson SmithWealdenConaye
Helen JonesWarrington NorthLab (minister)no
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Lynne JonesBirmingham, Selly OakLabno
Martyn JonesClwyd SouthLabno
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Alan KeenFeltham and HestonLabno
Ann KeenBrentford and IsleworthLabno
Paul KeetchHerefordLDemaye
Fraser KempHoughton and Washington EastLabno
Charles KennedyRoss, Skye and Inverness WestLDem (front bench)aye
Jane KennedyLiverpool, WavertreeLab (minister)tellno
Robert KeySalisburyConaye
David KidneyStaffordLabno
Peter KilfoyleLiverpool, WaltonLab (minister)no
Mr Andy KingRugby and KenilworthLabno
Ms Oona KingBethnal Green and BowLab (minister)no
Ms Tess KinghamGloucesterLabno
Julie KirkbrideBromsgroveConaye
Mr Archy KirkwoodRoxburgh and BerwickshireLDem (front bench)aye
Stephen LadymanSouth ThanetLabno
Eleanor LaingEpping ForestCon (front bench)aye
Jacqui LaitBeckenhamConaye
Andrew LansleySouth CambridgeshireCon (front bench)aye
Mrs Jackie LawrencePreseli PembrokeshireLabno
Bob LaxtonDerby NorthLabno
Edward LeighGainsboroughCon (front bench)aye
Chris LeslieShipleyLabno
Oliver LetwinWest DorsetCon (front bench)aye
Tom LevittHigh PeakLabno
Julian LewisNew Forest EastCon (front bench)aye
Mr Terry LewisWorsleyLabno
David LidingtonAylesburyConaye
Peter LilleyHitchin and HarpendenCon (front bench)aye
Martin LintonBatterseaLabno
Ken LivingstoneBrent Eastwhilst Labno
Sir Peter LloydFarehamConaye
Tony LloydManchester CentralLab (minister)no
Mr David LockWyre ForestLabno
Tim LoughtonEast Worthing and ShorehamCon (front bench)aye
Andrew LoveEdmontonLab (minister)no
Peter LuffMid WorcestershireCon (front bench)aye
Sir Nicholas LyellNorth East BedfordshireCon (front bench)aye
Mr Calum MacDonaldNa h-Eileanan an IarLab (minister)no
Mr John MacGregorSouth NorfolkConaye
David MacleanPenrith and The BorderConaye
Denis MacShaneRotherhamLabno
Fiona MactaggartSloughLabno
Mr David MadelSouth West BedfordshireContellaye
Mr Ken MaginnisFermanagh and South TyroneUUPaye
Mrs Alice MahonHalifaxLabno
Mr John MajorHuntingdonConaye
Humfrey MalinsWokingConaye
Judy MallaberAmber ValleyLabno
Mr Peter MandelsonHartlepoolLabno
John MaplesStratford-on-AvonCon (front bench)aye
Gordon MarsdenBlackpool SouthLab (minister)no
Mr Paul MarsdenShrewsbury and AtchamLabno
David MarshallGlasgow ShettlestonLabno
Dr Jim MarshallLeicester SouthLabno
Eric MartlewCarlisleLabno
Francis MaudeHorshamCon (front bench)aye
Dr Brian MawhinneyNorth West CambridgeshireConaye
Mr John MaxtonGlasgow CathcartLabno
Theresa MayMaidenheadCon (front bench)aye
John McAllionDundee EastLabno
Thomas McAvoyGlasgow RutherglenLab (minister)no
Steve McCabeBirmingham, Hall GreenLab (minister)no
Chris McCaffertyCalder ValleyLabno
Siobhain McDonaghMitcham and MordenLabno
John Martin McDonnellHayes and HarlingtonLabno
John McFallDumbartonLab (minister)no
Anne McGuireStirlingLab (minister)no
Anne McIntoshVale of YorkConaye
Shona McIsaacCleethorpesLabno
Rosemary McKennaCumbernauld and KilsythLabno
Patrick McLoughlinWest DerbyshireCon (front bench)aye
Mr Kevin McNamaraKingston upon Hull NorthLabno
Tony McNultyHarrow EastLabno
Mr Tony McWalterHemel HempsteadLabno
Michael MeacherOldham West and RoytonLab (minister)no
Alan MealeMansfieldLab (minister)no
Gillian MerronLincolnLabno
Mr Bill MichieSheffield, HeeleyLabno
Mrs Ray MichieArgyll and ButeLDemaye
Dr Lewis MoonieKirkcaldyLab (minister)no
Michael MooreTweeddale, Ettrick and LauderdaleLDem (front bench)aye
Margaret MoranLuton SouthLabno
Alasdair MorganGalloway and Upper NithsdaleSNPaye
Julie MorganCardiff NorthLabno
Mr Rhodri MorganCardiff WestLabno
Elliot MorleyScunthorpeLab (minister)no
Ms Estelle MorrisBirmingham, YardleyLab (minister)no
Malcolm MossNorth East CambridgeshireConaye
Kali MountfordColne ValleyLabno
Chris MullinSunderland SouthLabno
Denis MurphyWansbeckLabno
Jim MurphyEast RenfrewshireLabno
Paul MurphyTorfaenLab (minister)no
Doug NaysmithBristol North WestLabno
Mr Patrick NichollsTeignbridgeConaye
Mr Archie NormanTunbridge WellsConaye
Dan NorrisWansdykeLabno
Mike O'BrienNorth WarwickshireLab (minister)no
Edward O'HaraKnowsley SouthLabno
Mr Martin O'NeillOchilLab (minister)no
Mark OatenWinchesterLDemaye
Bill OlnerNuneatonLabno
Lembit ÖpikMontgomeryshireLDemaye
Mrs Diana OrganForest of DeanLabno
Sandra OsborneAyrLab (minister)no
Mr Richard PageSouth West HertfordshireConaye
James PaiceSouth East CambridgeshireCon (front bench)aye
Nick PalmerBroxtoweLabno
Owen PatersonNorth ShropshireCon (front bench)aye
Ian PearsonDudley SouthLabno
Eric PicklesBrentwood and OngarCon (front bench)aye
Mr Colin PickthallWest LancashireLabno
Mr Peter PikeBurnleyLabno
James PlaskittWarwick and LeamingtonLabno
Mr Kerry PollardSt AlbansLabno
Greg PopeHyndburnLab (minister)no
Mr Raymond PowellOgmoreLabno
Bridget PrenticeLewisham EastLabno
Gordon PrenticePendleLabno
John PrescottKingston upon Hull EastLab (minister)no
Dawn PrimaroloBristol SouthLab (minister)no
Mr David PriorNorth NorfolkConaye
Gwyn ProsserDoverLabno
Ken PurchaseWolverhampton North EastLabno
Ms Joyce QuinGateshead East and Washington WestLab (minister)no
John RandallUxbridgeCon (front bench)aye
Mr Syd RapsonPortsmouth NorthLabno
John RedwoodWokinghamCon (front bench)aye
John ReidHamilton North and BellshillLab (minister)no
Mr David RendelNewburyLDemaye
Andrew RobathanBlabyCon (front bench)aye
Laurence RobertsonTewkesburyCon (front bench)aye
Mrs Barbara RocheHornsey and Wood GreenLab (minister)no
Mrs Marion RoeBroxbourneConaye
Mr Jeff RookerBirmingham, Perry BarrLab (minister)no
Terry RooneyBradford NorthLabno
Mr Ernie RossDundee WestLabno
Mr Andrew RoweFaversham and Mid KentConaye
Frank RoyMotherwell and WishawLabno
Chris RuaneVale of ClwydLab (minister)no
Joan RuddockLewisham, DeptfordLabno
David RuffleyBury St EdmundsCon (front bench)aye
Bob RussellColchesterLDem (front bench)aye
Christine RussellCity of ChesterLabno
Joan RyanEnfield NorthLabno
Adrian SandersTorbayLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Malcolm SavidgeAberdeen NorthLabno
Mr Phil SawfordKetteringLabno
Mr Jonathan SayeedMid BedfordshireConaye
Mr Brian SedgemoreHackney South and ShoreditchLabno
Barry SheermanHuddersfieldLabno
Mr Robert SheldonAshton-under-LyneLab (minister)no
Mrs Gillian ShephardSouth West NorfolkCon (front bench)aye
Alan SimpsonNottingham SouthLabno
Marsha SinghBradford WestLabno
Dennis SkinnerBolsoverLabno
Andrew SmithOxford EastLab (minister)no
Angela SmithBasildonLabno
Geraldine SmithMorecambe and LunesdaleLabno
Jacqui SmithRedditchLabno
Mr Llew SmithBlaenau GwentLabno
Robert SmithWest Aberdeenshire and KincardineLDemaye
Martin SmythBelfast SouthUUPaye
Nicholas SoamesMid SussexConaye
Mr Clive SoleyEaling, Acton and Shepherd's BushLab (minister)no
Helen SouthworthWarrington SouthLabno
Caroline SpelmanMeridenCon (front bench)tellaye
Michael SpicerWest WorcestershireCon (front bench)aye
Rachel SquireDunfermline WestLabno
Mr Nick St AubynGuildfordConaye
Phyllis StarkeyMilton Keynes South WestLabno
Anthony SteenTotnesConaye
Mr Gerry SteinbergCity of DurhamLabno
Mr George StevensonStoke-on-Trent SouthLabno
Mr David StewartInverness East, Nairn and LochaberLabno
Ian StewartEcclesLabno
Mr Paul StinchcombeWellingboroughLabno
Howard StoateDartfordLabno
Gary StreeterSouth West DevonCon (front bench)aye
Graham StringerManchester, BlackleyLab (minister)no
Gisela StuartBirmingham, EdgbastonLabno
Gerry SutcliffeBradford SouthLabno
Desmond SwayneNew Forest WestCon (front bench)aye
Robert SymsPooleCon (front bench)aye
Peter TapsellLouth and HorncastleConaye
Mrs Ann TaylorDewsburyLab (minister)no
Ian TaylorEsher and WaltonConaye
Mr John TaylorSolihullConaye
John TaylorStrangfordUUPaye
Matthew TaylorTruro and St AustellLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Teddy TaylorRochford and Southend EastConaye
Mr Peter Temple-MorrisLeominsterwhilst Labno
Mr Gareth ThomasClwyd WestLabno
Gareth ThomasHarrow WestLab (minister)no
Mr William ThompsonWest TyroneUUPaye
Mark ToddSouth DerbyshireLabno
Dr Jenny TongeRichmond ParkLDem (front bench)aye
Don TouhigIslwynLabno
David TredinnickBosworthCon (front bench)aye
Mr Michael TrendWindsorConaye
Jon TrickettHemsworthLabno
Mr Dennis TurnerWolverhampton South EastLab (minister)no
Desmond TurnerBrighton, KemptownLabno
Dr George TurnerNorth West NorfolkLabno
Derek TwiggHaltonLab (minister)no
Stephen TwiggEnfield, SouthgateLabno
Mr Paul TylerNorth CornwallLDem (front bench)aye
Andrew TyrieChichesterCon (front bench)aye
Keith VazLeicester EastLabno
Rudi VisFinchley and Golders GreenLabno
Jim WallaceOrkney and ShetlandLDemaye
Joan WalleyStoke-on-Trent NorthLab (minister)no
Claire WardWatfordLabno
Charles WardleBexhill and Battlewhilst Conaye
Robert WareingLiverpool, West DerbyLabno
Nigel WatersonEastbourneConaye
Dave WattsSt Helens NorthLab (minister)no
Steve WebbNorthavonLDem (front bench)aye
Mr Brian WhiteNorth East Milton KeynesLabno
Sir Ray WhitneyWycombeConaye
John WhittingdaleMaldon and East ChelmsfordCon (front bench)aye
Malcolm WicksCroydon NorthLabno
Mr John WilkinsonRuislip - NorthwoodConaye
David WillettsHavantCon (front bench)aye
Dr Alan WilliamsCarmarthen East and DinefwrLabno
Phil WillisHarrogate and KnaresboroughLDem (front bench)aye
David WinnickWalsall NorthLab (minister)no
Ann WintertonCongletonConaye
Nicholas WintertonMacclesfieldConaye
Rosie WintertonDoncaster CentralLabno
Mike WoodBatley and SpenLabno
Shaun WoodwardWitneywhilst Con (front bench)aye
Mr Tony WorthingtonClydebank and MilngavieLabno
Anthony D WrightGreat YarmouthLabno
Tony WrightCannock ChaseLabno
Derek WyattSittingbourne and SheppeyLabno
Tim YeoSouth SuffolkCon (front bench)aye
George YoungNorth West HampshireCon (front bench)aye

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