Comparison of Divisions: Government's Fiscal Rules — new fiscal framework — rejected — 7 Oct 2008 at 18:41 with Division No. 104 on 29 Apr 2009 at 15:49

(Swap the two divisions around).

Vote (a) : Government's Fiscal Rules — new fiscal framework — rejected - 7 Oct 2008 at 18:41 - Division No. 268

The majority of MPs voted against the motion, which read:[1]

  • This House
  • notes with concern the successive criticisms by the IMF, the EU and the OECD of the state of the UK's public finances;
  • further notes that the Government are reviewing the fiscal rules and calls on the Government to announce the outcome of that review first to this House;
  • further calls on the Government to clarify whether or not the Sustainable Investment rule will be met and to implement a full and independent review of the public finances, including off-balance sheet liabilities under the private finance initiative and public sector pension schemes; and
  • further calls for the fiscal rules to be scrapped and replaced with a forward-looking fiscal framework with an independent mechanism for monitoring and assessing the sustainability of the Government's fiscal position.

In its place an alternative motion was proposed:

  • This House
  • notes that the purpose of the fiscal framework is to smooth the path of the economy in the short term, to secure sustainable public finances in the medium term and to ensure that spending and taxation impact fairly between generations;
  • recognises the success of the framework over the past decade, reversing historical under-investment in the infrastructure of public services, reducing debt from 43 per cent. of GDP in 1997 to below 37 per cent. last year and allowing borrowing to increase this year in order to support the economy;
  • welcomes the £4 billion of tax cuts helping families and businesses this year;
  • further notes the turmoil in the world economy and financial markets;
  • recognises that Government is rightly focused on the turbulence in the financial markets and helping families and businesses with the twin shocks of the credit crunch and high commodity prices; and
  • welcomes the Government's commitment to take whatever steps are necessary to protect the stability of the financial system.

which passed without a further vote.

Vote (b) : Gurkha Settlement Rights — Government defeat - 29 Apr 2009 at 15:49 - Division No. 104

The majority of MPs voted in favour of the motion:[1]

  • This House
  • regrets the Government's recent statement[2] outlining the eligibility criteria for Gurkhas to reside in the United Kingdom;
  • recognises the contribution the Gurkhas have made to the safety and freedom of the United Kingdom for the past 200 years;
  • notes that more Gurkhas have laid down their lives for the United Kingdom than are estimated to want to live here;
  • believes that Gurkhas who retired before 1997 should be treated fairly and in the same way as those who have retired since;
  • is concerned that the Government's new guidelines will permit only a small minority of Gurkhas and their families to settle whilst preventing the vast majority;
  • further believes that people who are prepared to fight and die for the United Kingdom should be entitled to live in the country; and
  • calls upon the Government to withdraw its new guidelines immediately and bring forward revised proposals that extend an equal right of residence to all Gurkhas.

As a consequence, the alternative Government motion, which read:[3]

  • This House
  • recognises that this Government is the only one since the Second World War to allow Gurkhas and their families settlement rights to the United Kingdom;
  • notes that in 2004 the Government permitted settlement rights to Gurkhas discharged since 1997, following the transfer of the Brigade HQ from Hong Kong to the United Kingdom;
  • further notes that under these rules around 6,000 Gurkhas and family members have been welcomed to the UK;
  • acknowledges that the court judgement of September 2008 determined that the 1997 cut-off date was fair and rational, while seeking clarification of the criteria for settlement rights for those who retired before 1997;
  • further notes that on 24 April the Government published new and more generous guidelines for the settlement applications of Gurkhas who retired before 1997;
  • supports this revised guidance, which will make around 10,000 Gurkhas and family members eligible to settle in the UK;
  • further notes that the Government undertakes actively to inform those who may be eligible in Nepal of these changes and to review the impact of the new guidance within 12 months;
  • further notes that the contribution Gurkhas have made is already recognised by pensions paid to around 25,000 Gurkhas or their widows in Nepal that allow for a good standard of living there; and
  • further notes that in the year 2000 Gurkha pensions were doubled and that, earlier in April 2009, in addition to an inflationary uplift of 14 per cent., those over 80 years old received a 20 per cent. increase in their pension.

... was never voted upon.

Although this extremely rare Government defeat in an opposition day motion is not binding (has no legal force)[4] a Government minister made a statement later in the day to bring "forward the date for the determination of the outstanding applications to the end of May."[5]

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Difference in Votes - sorted by party

MPs for which their vote on Motion (a) differed from their vote on Motion (b). You can also see just opposite votes between these two divisions, or simply all the votes.

Sort by: Name | Constituency | Party | Vote (a) | Vote (b)

NameConstituencyPartyVote (a)Vote (b)
Brian BinleyNorthampton SouthCon (front bench)aye absent
Tim BoswellDaventryCon (front bench)aye absent
John ButterfillBournemouth WestCon (front bench)aye absent
James ClappisonHertsmereCon (front bench)aye absent
Kenneth ClarkeRushcliffeCon (front bench)aye absent
Nigel EvansRibble ValleyConaye absent
James GrayNorth WiltshireCon (front bench)aye absent
John GreenwayRyedaleConaye absent
Oliver HealdNorth East HertfordshireCon (front bench)aye absent
David Heathcoat-AmoryWellsCon (front bench)aye absent
John HoramOrpingtonCon (front bench)aye absent
Michael JackFyldeCon (front bench)aye absent
Julie KirkbrideBromsgroveCon (front bench)aye absent
Peter LuffMid WorcestershireCon (front bench)aye absent
Humfrey MalinsWokingCon (front bench)aye absent
John MaplesStratford-on-AvonCon (front bench)aye absent
Francis MaudeHorshamCon (front bench)aye absent
David MundellDumfriesshire, Clydesdale and TweeddaleCon (front bench)aye absent
Owen PatersonNorth ShropshireCon (front bench)aye absent
David WilshireSpelthorneCon (front bench)aye absent
Michael AncramDevizesCon (front bench)absent aye
Richard BaconSouth NorfolkCon (front bench)absent aye
Crispin BluntReigateCon (front bench)absent aye
Peter BottomleyWorthing WestCon (front bench)absent aye
Graham BradyAltrincham and Sale WestCon (front bench)absent aye
David CameronWitneyCon (front bench)absent aye
Philip DunneLudlowCon (front bench)absent aye
Michael FallonSevenoaksCon (front bench)absent aye
Liam FoxWoodspringCon (front bench)absent aye
Christopher FraserSouth West NorfolkCon (front bench)absent aye
Damian GreenAshfordCon (front bench)absent aye
Adam HollowayGraveshamCon (front bench)absent aye
Michael HowardFolkestone and HytheConabsent aye
Daniel KawczynskiShrewsbury and AtchamCon (front bench)absent aye
Julian LewisNew Forest EastCon (front bench)absent aye
Patrick MercerNewarkCon (front bench)absent aye
Andrew MurrisonWestburyCon (front bench)absent aye
Richard OttawayCroydon SouthCon (front bench)absent aye
Malcolm RifkindKensington and ChelseaConabsent aye
Richard SpringWest SuffolkCon (front bench)absent aye
David TredinnickBosworthConabsent aye
Nicholas WintertonMacclesfieldCon (front bench)absent aye
Gregory CampbellEast LondonderryDUP (front bench)absent aye
Nigel DoddsBelfast NorthDUP (front bench)absent aye
Jeffrey M. DonaldsonLagan ValleyDUP (front bench)absent aye
William McCreaSouth AntrimDUP (front bench)absent aye
Peter RobinsonBelfast EastDUPabsent aye
Derek ConwayOld Bexley and Sidcupwhilst Independent (front bench)aye absent
Dai DaviesBlaenau GwentIndependentno aye
Andrew PellingCroydon Centralwhilst Independent (front bench)absent aye
Bob SpinkCastle Pointwhilst Independent (front bench)absent aye
Robert WareingLiverpool, West Derbywhilst Independentabsent aye
Diane AbbottHackney North and Stoke NewingtonLabno aye
Ian CawseyBrigg and GooleLab (minister)no aye
Harry CohenLeyton and WansteadLab (minister)no aye
Jeremy CorbynIslington NorthLabno aye
Paul FarrellyNewcastle-under-LymeLab (minister)no aye
Mark FisherStoke-on-Trent CentralLabno aye
Neil GerrardWalthamstowLab (minister)no aye
Kate HoeyVauxhallLab (minister)no aye
Kelvin HopkinsLuton NorthLab (minister)no aye
Joan HumbleBlackpool North and FleetwoodLab (minister)no aye
Gordon MarsdenBlackpool SouthLabno aye
Robert Marshall-AndrewsMedwayLabno aye
John Martin McDonnellHayes and HarlingtonLabno aye
Shona McIsaacCleethorpesLabno aye
Julie MorganCardiff NorthLab (minister)no aye
Nick PalmerBroxtoweLab (minister)no aye
Steve PoundEaling NorthLab (minister)no aye
Nick RaynsfordGreenwich and WoolwichLabno aye
Andy ReedLoughboroughLab (minister)no aye
Linda RiordanHalifaxLab (minister)no aye
Alan SimpsonNottingham SouthLabno aye
Andrew SmithOxford EastLabno aye
Paul TruswellPudseyLabno aye
David TaylorNorth West LeicestershireLab (minister)no both
John AustinErith and ThamesmeadLab (minister)no absent
Adrian BaileyWest Bromwich WestLab (minister)no absent
John BattleLeeds WestLab (minister)no absent
Hilary BennLeeds CentralLab (minister)no absent
Colin BurgonElmetLabno absent
Stephen ByersNorth TynesideLabno absent
Richard CabornSheffield CentralLabno absent
Ronnie CampbellBlyth ValleyLabno absent
Martin CatonGowerLab (minister)no absent
Michael ClaphamBarnsley West and PenistoneLab (minister)no absent
Katy ClarkNorth Ayrshire and ArranLab (minister)no absent
Jon CruddasDagenhamLabno absent
Jim DobbinHeywood and MiddletonLab (minister)no absent
Frank FieldBirkenheadLab (minister)no absent
Paul FlynnNewport WestLab (minister)no absent
Ian GibsonNorwich NorthLab (minister)no absent
Mike HallWeaver ValeLab (minister)no absent
Patrick HallBedfordLab (minister)no absent
Doug HendersonNewcastle upon Tyne NorthLabno absent
David HeyesAshton-under-LyneLab (minister)no absent
Meg HillierHackney South and ShoreditchLab (minister)no absent
Jimmy HoodLanark and Hamilton EastLab (minister)no absent
Geoff HoonAshfieldLab (minister)no absent
Lindsay HoyleChorleyLab (minister)no absent
Siân JamesSwansea EastLab (minister)no absent
Lynne JonesBirmingham, Selly OakLab (minister)no absent
Martyn JonesClwyd SouthLab (minister)no absent
Peter KilfoyleLiverpool, WaltonLabno absent
Ivan LewisBury SouthLab (minister)no absent
Martin LintonBatterseaLab (minister)no absent
Denis MacShaneRotherhamLabno absent
Khalid MahmoodBirmingham, Perry BarrLabno absent
Judy MallaberAmber ValleyLab (minister)no absent
John MannBassetlawLab (minister)no absent
Chris McCaffertyCalder ValleyLabno absent
Anne McGuireStirlingLabno absent
Michael MeacherOldham West and RoytonLabno absent
David MilibandSouth ShieldsLab (minister)no absent
Ed MilibandDoncaster NorthLab (minister)no absent
Austin MitchellGreat GrimsbyLab (minister)no absent
Anne MoffatEast LothianLab (minister)no absent
Edward O'HaraKnowsley SouthLab (minister)no absent
Bridget PrenticeLewisham EastLab (minister)no absent
John PrescottKingston upon Hull EastLabno absent
Bill RammellHarlowLab (minister)no absent
Jamie ReedCopelandLab (minister)no absent
John RobertsonGlasgow North WestLab (minister)no absent
Marsha SinghBradford WestLab (minister)no absent
Anne SnelgroveSouth SwindonLab (minister)no absent
Gavin StrangEdinburgh EastLab (minister)no absent
Paddy TippingSherwoodLab (minister)no absent
Neil TurnerWiganLab (minister)no absent
Betty WilliamsConwyLabno absent
Shaun WoodwardSt Helens SouthLab (minister)no absent
Anthony D WrightGreat YarmouthLab (minister)no absent
Glenda JacksonHampstead and HighgateLababsent aye
Andrew MacKinlayThurrockLab (minister)absent aye
Keith VazLeicester EastLab (minister)absent aye
Mike WoodBatley and SpenLababsent aye
Nick AingerCarmarthen West and South PembrokeshireLab (minister)absent no
Bob AinsworthCoventry North EastLab (minister)absent no
Gordon BanksOchil and South PerthshireLab (minister)absent no
Margaret BeckettDerby SouthLab (minister)absent no
Gordon BrownKirkcaldy and CowdenbeathLab (minister)absent no
Andy BurnhamLeighLab (minister)absent no
Ben ChapmanWirral SouthLab (minister)absent no
Jim CousinsNewcastle upon Tyne CentralLab (minister)absent no
Alistair DarlingEdinburgh South WestLab (minister)absent no
Paul GogginsWythenshawe and Sale EastLab (minister)absent no
David HamiltonMidlothianLab (minister)absent no
Stephen HepburnJarrowLab (minister)absent no
Adam IngramEast Kilbride, Strathaven and LesmahagowLababsent no
Ann KeenBrentford and IsleworthLab (minister)absent no
Ruth KellyBolton WestLababsent no
Andrew LoveEdmontonLab (minister)absent no
Ian McCartneyMakerfieldLababsent no
John McFallWest DunbartonshireLab (minister)absent no
Jim McGovernDundee WestLab (minister)absent no
Alan MilburnDarlingtonLababsent no
Margaret MoranLuton SouthLab (minister)absent no
Jessica MordenNewport EastLab (minister)absent no
Jim MurphyEast RenfrewshireLab (minister)absent no
Gwyn ProsserDoverLab (minister)absent no
Ken PurchaseWolverhampton North EastLab (minister)absent no
Lindsay RoyGlenrothesLababsent no
John SmithVale of GlamorganLab (minister)absent no
Dari TaylorStockton SouthLab (minister)absent no
Gareth ThomasHarrow WestLab (minister)absent no
Derek WyattSittingbourne and SheppeyLab (minister)absent no
Alistair CarmichaelOrkney and ShetlandLDem (front bench)aye absent
Mark OatenWinchesterLDem (front bench)aye absent
Paul RowenRochdaleLDem (front bench)aye absent
Jo SwinsonEast DunbartonshireLDem (front bench)aye absent
Roger WilliamsBrecon and RadnorshireLDem (front bench)aye absent
Danny AlexanderInverness, Nairn, Badenoch and StrathspeyLDem (front bench)absent aye
Norman BakerLewesLDem (front bench)absent aye
Paul BurstowSutton and CheamLDem (front bench)absent aye
Vincent CableTwickenhamLDem (front bench)absent aye
Menzies CampbellNorth East FifeLDem (front bench)absent aye
Nick CleggSheffield, HallamLDem (front bench)absent aye
Simon HughesNorth Southwark and BermondseyLDem (front bench)absent aye
Michael MooreBerwickshire, Roxburgh and SelkirkLDem (front bench)absent aye
Greg MulhollandLeeds North WestLDem (front bench)absent aye
Steve WebbNorthavonLDem (front bench)absent aye
Phil WillisHarrogate and KnaresboroughLDem (front bench)absent aye
Alasdair McDonnellBelfast SouthSDLP (front bench)absent aye
Stewart HosieDundee EastSNP (front bench)aye absent
Michael WeirAngusSNP (front bench)absent aye
Bob SpinkCastle Pointwhilst UKIP (front bench)both absent
Sylvia HermonNorth DownUUP (front bench)absent aye

Division Similarity Ratio

The measure of similarity between these two divisions is a calculation based on a comparison of their votes.

There were 645 MPs who could have voted in both of these divisions, and 413 voted the same way, with 24 voting in opposite ways. There were 48 MPs who didn't vote in either division, and 160 who voted in only one of them.

We invert the vote on the second division if it makes the distance closer (since the meaning of 'Aye' and 'No' are often interchangeable depending on how the question was put). In this case, they line up the same way. An 's vote in in only one of the divisions contributes a factor of 0.2 to the distance. The calculation runs as follows:

ratio =
[same-votes]
([same-votes] + [differing-votes] + 0.2x[abstain-in-one])
=
413
(413 + 24 + 0.2x160)
=
413
469
= 0.881 = 88.1 %.


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